Transcript: Mayor de Blasio Appears on Inside City Hall

November 22, 2021

Errol Louis: We are back Inside City Hall. As we reported before the break, the City Council is set to make a final decision on the controversial Blood Center Rezoning Plan on the Upper East Side. Here now to talk about that and much more is Mayor de Blasio joining us from the Blue Room inside City Hall. Good evening, Mr. Mayor.  

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Good evening, Errol. How are you doing?   

Louis: Just fine, thanks. I want to ask you about this Blood Center vote because in addition to the standard questions you get with any new building about the proposed height and so forth, I was struck by the fact that the center itself is only going to inhabit about a third of the proposed tower with most of the space, two thirds going to for-profit companies that are going to be tenants, and I'm wondering should New York be incentivizing new commercial space when we've got so much vacant office space already?  

Mayor: Look, this is really about the goal here. The goal is first of all, to make sure we have a stable blood supply for the city. That's what the Blood Center does. We need to guarantee their physical future, their financial future. It's really important organization for the city, and we saw during COVID times when the blood supply got really low, so that's one imperative. But the second is life sciences, which is both about cures and, and new medicines that will save lives, but it's also about the future of New York City and its economy. We need to be the life sciences capital. We can be. That corridor along the East Side with the hospitals, with the universities, is absolutely crucial to the future of the city. So, this is particular. This is a site that allows us to do a lot for what the city needs in the future of the city, wouldn't be the same if it was a number of other places, but this particular organization, this particular site makes a lot of sense.  

Louis: It gets interesting when you sort of juxtapose the imperative of supporting that particular sector, totally agree with you there, against the issues of whether or not they actually met with the community board and the borough president, and the local council member. They - all three of those entities, which is supposed to guarantee community input, are pretty much saying that they don't feel like they have the level of input that they were entitled to and that this administration would normally support.  

Mayor: Yeah, and I am honestly a little perplexed by that because I don't know every detail of the process, and historically that's been something that does happen, and I don't know exactly who spoke to who or who didn't. I do know the Blood Center is, you know, by their very nature, they're an organization that works on behalf of the people in New York City. They're not, you know, a classic big corporation or a real estate firm. I mean, they're there for a good cause. I don't know what happened with the dialogue. I do know there were efforts made in the final plan to address the real concerns that enable it to make some important investments in the neighborhood. So, I think in the end, this, you know, sometimes we see things through the prism of other types of actions or events. I think this one needs to be seen for what it is, an organization we desperately need to do well in this city and an industry and a sector we need to be a big part of New York City's future, and that's to me what the vote is ultimately about.  

Louis: There are some critics of the plan that say you personally might have a conflict of interest because the Blood Center’s attorneys at Kramer Levin are those same firm that you all over up $400,000 to from their legal representation of you in the past. What do you say to that?   

Mayor: It's a specious claim, it’s just not accurate. I care about the Blood Center because I care about the Blood Center and I care about life sciences, I've been talking about for years. We put out a plan years ago. I didn't even know who their representation was, honestly, until very late in this process. So, it had nothing to do with it. This is a project that makes sense for New York City. That's what's motivating.  

Louis: So, no conversations directly or indirectly with your former attorneys about this?  

Mayor: Never and never on any of the issues where people have tried to make that linkage. It's really – I mean, I get why people do it, but it's just not fair. You're the first person that actually I remember ever, Errol, saying did you ever talk to them about it? No. That law firm, I've never talked to them about this issue or the other things where people said, oh, they must have had an impact. Well, they're not having an impact if I didn't know, they represented the entity involved and I never had a conversation with them.   

Louis: Okay. Just got to ask and make sure we're all on the same page. Well, let me ask you about this proposal for year-round schooling that you unveiled as part of your eminent campaign for Governor – we saw a little taste of what it's like to have year-round schooling this summer, right? You had a program that was open to any interested student. I saw the cost of that was about $200 million, about 200,000 students who signed up. And putting aside, you know predictably, there were some staffing issues and some confusion about how to get the thing up and running, but do we now have solid numbers or feedback on whether academic targets were met and whether the academic achievement of the students improved due to the program?  

Mayor: Well, it's a very important question, Errol. It’s something, obviously, we're still assessing. We're only a couple of months into the school year. We do know that there were very few issues with lifting it off and it actually worked very smoothly. 200,000 kids, that's a big deal. They were there in school, 8 am to 6 pm, multiple meals in the day, you know, recreation culture, as well as academics. I heard incredible feedback from the educator’s point of view, unquestionably it was a helpful bridge for a lot of kids who have been out of the classroom and whose education suffered because of COVID. In terms of hard facts, I think it's – it's hard to measure because of all the disruption. We'll get a good sense in the course of the school year, the difference between the kids who were in that program and the kids who were not. But there's no question to me about the value added so far. And I'll tell you, Errol, the vision I have is this should be the whole state every year, not just after a crisis, every year, optional, and available, and free, and universal, all summer and longer school day until six o'clock every day, a parent of a child, any age level should know that if they prefer to have the kids stay in that school community or go to a program at a local non-profit connected to the school, they should have that right. It should be covered. And that should be something the state of New York funds. And I put forward to plan exactly for that reason.  

Louis: Well, I mean, that's what I guess that’s what I'm getting at, is like, do we know enough to say that this should be universal and statewide at, you know, God only knows what cost? Whether as Mayor or as Governor, you've got to – you need a little bit more information before you can propose this as a universal entitlement, right?  

Mayor: No, I mean, I understand what the question – it's a fair question – but I'll tell you why I feel on very firm ground. I mean, the, the plan I put forward – well, two things where the jury is definitely back, 3-K, pre-K. I think there's a strong educational consensus that those are pieces of the puzzle that truly elevate a student's learning later in life. They've given that early foundation. It’s crucial. That's part of my plan. Longer school day with an academic component. I don't think there's a lot of debate. If kids are in a safe, positive, nurturing environment and there's additional tutoring and academic support available, we certainly have seen that with the middle school kids, we'd given them after-school for free now for years, clearly improves outcomes. And then summer, I mean, one of the big issues educators have had is summer learning loss, and you put kids in and setting where they're going to get a certain amount of academic activity each day. I mean, I think it's all straightforward. It's going to improve, but this is not just about the academics. This is about lightening the burden, taking the burden off parents, giving them the safety and security of knowing they have a great place for their kids and taking the financial burden off that afterschool programs and summer programs have costs for so many parents. There's more than one thing going on here, for sure.   

Louis: There's no question it's attractive as a political proposal. And of course, it echoes with your big campaign themes from 2013, the idea of taxing the rich and expanding public education. I guess the question I have is, you know, will we see educators, you know, weighing in on this, about the efficacy and the efficiency of it? You know, you can add a lot of hours, but then give only a few minutes of actual educational improvement, if it's not done properly, if the curriculum isn't right, if the supervision isn't in place, that sort of thing.  

Mayor: This is really good. You know, this is an important dialogue and fair questions. So, for example, we've had afterschool programs for middle school kids only, and I obviously wanted to reach much farther, we didn't have the resources. This is another reason why state funding is so crucial, not just New York City, but a lot of places around the state that could never afford any of this without state help. We do know that if you add that tutoring component, if you add that a component where kids need homework help, and you give them some continuity school, we know that helps, but you're right, it has to be done in a quality, consistent fashion. We do know summer learning loss is a problem and we had a strong academic component of this summer that I'd like to emulate all over the state, but you're right. Let's document it so people see it. I know educators, I've spoken to a number of educators already who are enthusiastic to give kids these options for families who need them, but you raise a good point, let's document how longer school days – optional – but still longer school days for those who want it, longer school years for those who want it, let's document what the research shows and what our own experience has shown. That's – I accept that challenge happily, and we will get that out.   

Louis: Okay. Stand by, Mr. Mayor. We're going to take a short break. We'll have more with Mayor de Blasio in a minute. Stay with us.  

[…]  

Louis: Welcome Back to Inside City Hall. I’m once again joined by Mayor de Blasio, coming to us from the Blue Room. And, Mr. Mayor, I see that your longtime Department of Homeless Services Commissioner Steve Banks has announced that he'll be stepping down at the end of the term. He's been with you for pretty much the entire eight years. It's early to start on some of this, but we've got a lot of assessments ahead. How would you assess his performance? 

Mayor: Well, first, Errol, you'll appreciate this in particular. You know, Steve Banks and I got to know each other back in 2001, because we were running for the same City Council seat in our neighborhood in Brooklyn. And that might not have been the best way to start a relationship, but we ended up with a lot of mutual respect. And when I brought him in originally as the Human Resources Administration administrator, a lot of folks thought is this going to make sense? This, like, super advocate coming into government? I think Steve's done an absolutely outstanding job, put together a really great team. Here's the bottom line. I think – and I said it real publicly – the first couple of years, I think we missed some real opportunities to do better in terms of homelessness. And I think our strategy just – it was an uneven strategy. It did not yield what we needed to focus on. I think we needed to look at both the homeless shelter reality and the street reality with a coordinated strategy. Over time, we caught the mistake. And then, we came up with a strategy of getting out of the pay-by-the-day hotels, and the scattered sites, and creating an actual functioning shelter system, and getting people to their home neighborhoods as the part of the pathway to permanent housing. And then, the Journey Home initiative, that's the heavy, heavy outreach. The street outreach workers, getting people to come in. The Safe Havens, get them off the street, keep them off the street in a good way with, you know, real support to get people a better life ahead. The strategies in the last couple of years have worked really, really well. And the federal HOPE Count shows us street homelessness has now gone down markedly in New York City. Shelter population is actually well below the level of when I took office. So, it took us a while, I’m the first to say, and steps and missteps. But the last couple of years of this strategy have actually been working and I give Steve Banks a lot of credit for that. 

Louis: Okay. Let me move on to some questions about Correction. As of yesterday, the Department of Correction vaccination rate was 64 percent, probably the lowest of all the agencies I would suspect at this point. The mandate is quickly approaching. You gave them a little extra time, but December 1st is, you know, pretty much upon us. The federal monitor remains concerned about conditions. I'm wondering if there's a plan in place, if you do have a staffing crunch when December 1st rolls around? 

Mayor: Yeah, of course, we're preparing for different situations as we have with every agency. But I will tell you, Errol, we've seen a lot of movement at Department of Correction. The incentive has had an impact and that, you know, had a timeline associated with it. People are certainly aware of that. The fact that, in the end, people make this decision – many people make it right up at the end. They only get vaccinated when the deadline comes or right after the deadline. We saw that a lot with the schools. We saw it with the uniformed services folks. It was not the deadline day. It was two days later or four days later, five days later. But we still saw an essential truth, that people ultimately got vaccinated and did not want to go without pay or lose their job, ultimately, obviously. And then, you’ve got – some people apply for reasonable accommodation. And while that process is being worked through, of course, they continue on the job. So, we feel good that all of what we've learned before is going to come together and, once again, you know, we're going to have the personnel we need and it's going to be a much safer workplace in the bargain because of the mandate. 

Louis: In the past, you have said that the use of solitary confinement corrodes the human spirit, contributes to mental health problems. I think there's a sound reasons to reach both of those conclusions. But you've also issued an executive order earlier this month that lifted the ban on solitary. Is that part of this conversation or negotiation with the Correction officers about staffing? 

Mayor: No. I understand why you asked that, but it's actually for an entirely different reason. There was physical work to do to create the new spaces, because it will not be solitary confinement as it was before. We've radically reduced that already, but I want to end it entirely. It's a different approach where if someone is being sanctioned for things they've done wrong, they are isolated from other folks who are in – other inmates, but not put into such a, you know, exact total isolation as they were previously. So, there is a physical reworking of the space that has to be done, obviously, the right kind of staffing as well. So, it really was a temporary need to get a few more things in place. Everything I've heard, that will be resolved in the next few weeks. 

Louis: Okay. I wanted to ask you about this latest attempt to try and end the use of horse carriages in New York. This was something you came in with a promise on eight years ago. You've tried a lot of different ways. I'm wondering if this situation isn’t entirely different now. Aren't they largely confined to Central Park at this point? 

Mayor: Yes. It is different, it’s better. And your recounting of history is right. I believed in the beginning in a full ban, I still think it's the right thing to do. We tried – we had a situation where the Council didn't act on it. We did some different things. The move to Central Park has been good, a number of other actions to try and create a healthier dynamic. I still don't think it's humane to have horse carriages. I just don't. But yeah, we've made progress for sure with some other approaches. 

Louis: I don't know what they do in, you know, Rochester, Buffalo, other places around the state, but is that a belief you would carry into a statewide campaign?  

Mayor: Look, I think it's – the answer is yeah. I'll tell you why. I mean, you've seen around the world – there's cities all over the world that had horse carriages that have gotten rid of them, because it just – we've really started to – we understand our connection to nature, and to animals, and to the environment, the climate. I mean, a lot of thinking is going on. There's a reason a lot of people have chosen to be vegan. You know, there's a lot of things, and certainly the love people have for animals, and the desire to stop inhumane treatment of animals. You've seen changes in how circuses are approached and lots of other things. So, this is part of a national, even international phenomenon. A lot of great cities around the world have just said, this is an anachronistic, we're getting rid of horse carriages. I don't think they have a place in New York City or New York State. 

Louis: I want to switch topics. The East River Park, the different work that's being done to do flood barriers, resiliency measures, has been slowed down a little bit, in part, because there's a lawsuit from the Black Institute led by your former ally Bertha Lewis. Maybe she's still at ally, I don't want to jump ahead. But they’re suing, alleging that your administration has minimal participation by minority- and women-owned business enterprises in the building of these barriers and other resiliency measures, saying that your administration has required only 16 percent of subcontracted dollars to go to MWBEs, which is well below your administration's 30 percent target. 

Mayor: Look, first of all, there's a litigation going on, so I'll just say a little bit. I'm a friend and a fan of Bertha Lewis. Anyone who knows Bertha, knows that you're not going to agree with her all the time, but she's a very good person who's had a wonderful impact on this city. In this case, I just disagree. We have a strong MWBE component to this project. And the reason we're doing this project is because we saw the side of Manhattan hit very hard by Sandy. Everyone remembers what happened to the hospitals. God, that people had to be taken out in a most urgent situation from a hospital in the dead of night through the water. I mean, it was horrible. And what we learned is that whole section of the city is very vulnerable. A lot of people live there. A lot of people work there. We needed a really clear resiliency measure for the future. And this plan does it. And it ultimately addresses a lot of the community concerns. It will take time, but it really does address the community concerns, ultimately, in my view, strongly. And, of course, it contributes to the progress we're making on MWBE procurement. So, we believe we're going to end up prevailing in that lawsuit and moving forward with this project. 

Louis: Is there room to renegotiate or adjust the percentages so that there's more involvement? I think that's what the lawsuit is getting at.  

Mayor: Again, it's a litigation matter so I'll be careful. I can say as a broad measure, we're always trying to increase MWBE participation. But what I want to emphasize is, there are people who – not one group or another, but some of the critics who I think don't talk about why this project exists to begin with it. It exists as a response to a horrible, natural disaster that was a warning sign that, that part of the city was very vulnerable. That's why there's urgency to get something done here. 

Louis: Okay. Before I let you go, I heard you were at the Soul Train Music Awards, had their 50th anniversary up in Harlem at the Apollo. We don't have any footage just yet, but was there any dancing? Were you on the floor with the First Lady? 

Mayor: You know, they – for some reason, Errol, they did not ask for a separate dance performance with me and Chirlane. But Chirlane and I did get to participate in the program, welcome the crowd. It's a big deal, Soul Train Music Awards being in Harlem, at the Apollo, in New York City on their 50th anniversary, very big deal. And, in fact, I want to keep them here. They've done their shows in Vegas. No disrespect to Vegas, but if we're talking about history and culture, the Apollo Theater is where they need to be. And it was amazing. Here's a tip for your viewers, I think it's going to be airing on Sunday on BET and other platforms. Watch out for the performance by Ashanti. She got the Queen of Soul Award and she earned it that night.  

Louis: Like they say, the hippest trip in America. Thanks, Mr. Mayor. We'll talk again next week. 

Mayor: Take care, Errol. 

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