Transcript: Mayor de Blasio Appears Live on the Young Turks' the Conversation

November 26, 2019

Cenk Uygur: Joining me now is Mayor of New York, Bill de Blasio. Mayor de Blasio, great to have you back on The Young Turks.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Cenk, it is a great pleasure to be back with you.

Uygur: Alright, thank you for joining us.

Mayor: Happy Thanksgiving.

Uygur: Thank you, you too. So a lot of New York mayors in the news. Now Mike Bloomberg joining the fray in the Democratic side, so, first let’s talk about his record as Mayor and obviously you’ve got some experience here. He says, ‘Oh my god, I found the light, it turns out stop-and-frisk wasn’t a good idea.’ What do you say about that?

Mayor: Cenk, you know, this is a guy who really reinforced the status quo every chance he got in New York City and I have spent literally six years undoing what Michael Bloomberg did, and stop-and-frisk is one of the most obvious examples but there is a lot of others. With stop-and-frisk, I can’t tell you how many years people pleaded with Michael Bloomberg, leaders in the African American and the Latino community said over and over, this was hurting our children, this was holding back our communities, creating a rift between police and community. He would never listen. And, you know, okay – you can say, well, heat of battle, he was mayor, but of course once he was done being mayor he would be able to figure it out. I have been in six years, we got rid of the policy he had in stop-and-frisk. It was totally broken, we got rid of it, crime has gone down six years in a row, and by the way, Cenk, he not only was enamored of stops, he was enamored of arrests, and arrests lead to mass incarceration.

So for example, in 2018, the NYPD arrested 150,000 fewer people in New York than the last year of Michael Bloomberg because we moved away from arrests and we kept a lot of people out of jail who didn’t need to be there. So, we understand that Michael Bloomberg had a stop heavy, arrest heavy, very punitive, very aggressive approach to policing, in a country, bluntly, that is still coming to grips with the reality of race-based policing. That’s what he encouraged. And by the way, a lot of us fought for a law banning racial profiling by the NYPD. He vetoed it. We fought for a law to create an independent inspector general, real accountability for the NYPD. He vetoed it. So this is just one subject, but what is clear is that as Democrats come to understand this and people all over the country, this is not what they are going to be looking for. And that’s just policing. I’m looking forward to talking to you about all the ways he helped the rich get richer, all the ways he helped real estate developers and landlords, I mean a lot happened here –

Uygur: Yeah.

Mayor: That is absolutely out of touch with what Democrats are looking for and talking about right now.

Uygur: So, I want to go to real estate next in a second, but just one last thing on stop-and-frisk, for folks who don’t know, in many of the years over 90 percent of the people who were stopped in New York were black or Latino –

Mayor: That’s right.

Uygur: And so, as Mayor de Blasio is pointing out here, year after year, people would point this out to him. It’s not like it was a surprise. So when he now, right before he announces his candidacy for the Democratic nomination, says that he now realizes stop-and-frisk was wrong. Do you even believe him? Or do you think he’s just lying because he wants to get Democratic votes?

Mayor: No, and I want to harken to what a member of my family said hearing it for the first time, they said people are not stupid. You know, you can see when someone is sincere, he had years he could have come up with this apology when he was mayor and six years since, and then the first time it happens is when he’s on the verge of running for president. No, it’s not believable. And, Cenk, I used the example of Donald Trump started really bombastically supporting stop-and-frisk in 2016. That would have been such a perfect time for Michael Bloomberg to say, ‘Hey, you know, Trump is wrong, I actually tried it, I was wrong, you know, this is not the way to go.’ He was silent. He was silent in 2016, 2017, 2018. Suddenly and conveniently in 2019 he has a conversion experience. I don’t buy it.

Uygur: That’s a damning record. So, now let’s go to other issues. So, often in New York City, politicians and sometimes Republicans like Bloomberg, sometimes independents like Bloomberg, sometimes Democrats like Bloomberg, will wind up, no matter which party they are in, giving away the House to real estate developers and saying, well, I had to do it, it was for economic development, etcetera. Well, tell us about the true record of Bloomberg in this case?

Mayor: Yeah, it’s very important, Cenk, that you start with the partisan piece because for the entire time he was mayor, I mean ran as a Republican, in many ways acted as a Republican, we had, and this is absolutely about income inequality and the developers and the landlords – we had a Republican State Senate that would not allow any real change in our laws, any real reforms for working people and for renters, for struggling folks in this city. And why did that Republican State Senate survive? Because it was bankrolled by Michael Bloomberg and he was a partisan Republican when it came to defending the interests of that party in Albany and it hurt people in New York City.

So, what happened? We kept trying to strengthen our rent laws to stop hundreds of thousands of people from being displaced. Michael Bloomberg and the Republicans he backed in Albany stopped it. He gave away [inaudible] to developers, extraordinary number of sweetheart deals, a huge amount of wealth was transferred to the wealthy. So, we often like to talk about income redistribution, it happened here in New York City. The problem was Michael Bloomberg was sending the money to those who were already rich. He did a lot to help landlords, continued their sweetheart realities, and we saw a huge amount of displacement of working people.

When I became Mayor, I had to undo six – in my six years I had to undo the 12 years of what he did. We had to rent freezes to help people stay in their apartments. We had to do anti-eviction legal services to end what had become a skyrocketing eviction rate. This was all the residue, all the result of Bloomberg’s time as Mayor. So, you know, here’s a city – I talked about it when I first ran. It was a tale of two cities. He literally put that tale of two cities on steroids and had no response whatsoever to the Great Recession.

A lot of us were fighting for higher minimum wage as a result of the Great Recession. He opposed it. We were fighting for paid sick days for working people. He opposed it. One of the most powerful moments after the Great Recession is when he literally went to Goldman Sachs to give a pep talk to executives at Goldman Sachs [inaudible] come under criticism. I mean this is stuff you can’t even make up. And if it were anyone but one of the richest people on Earth, how on Earth would he be able to even pretend he could get in this presidential race as a Democrat. He’s just overtly doing it with money and he’s done it before here in New York. He’s trying to do it now nationally.

Uygur: Yeah. I’m pretty sure Goldman Sachs wasn’t the folks who needed a pep talk after the Recession but it should be noted, of course, that Bloomberg made his fortune by selling Terminus to Wall Street. So, he is, in a sense, literally indebted to Wall Street for all of the money he has made throughout his life. But he’s now sending out his campaign which leads us to his launch. He spent $34 million on day one on television advertising which is a stunning amount of money. That has a couple of implications but one of them is related to the topic we were talking about – he bragged about his record on homelessness in New York. So, what’s the true tale of what happened in his term about homelessness?

Mayor: Yeah and, Cenk, this is – I really appreciate this opportunity to put the facts out because they are so damning. No, the greatest surge in homelessness in the history of New York City happened during Michael Bloomberg’s mayoralty. In 2011, in particular, he cancelled a rent subsidy program that was actually one of the difference makers, one of the things that was actually working to reduce homelessness. It’s called the Advantage Program. He cancelled it and homelessness skyrocketed. If my memory serves we had something like 34,000 people in shelter at the time he cancelled the program in 2011. He leaves office at the end of 2013, there’s 50,000-plus people in shelter. It was horrible decision making. It was once again ignoring the human cost because this is a guy who has not shown himself to think in terms of what people are going through. He is so disconnected from everyday people because of his wealth. And you know it’s audacious and just really inappropriate for him to try and claim any kind of success when he was the person who made homelessness so much worse, and there was so much he could have done about it. But no, the pattern was so clear. To him it’s like the Great Recession never happened and the focus wasn’t on working people, but anytime there was an opportunity to enrich the already wealthy, he took it. That’s who he is.

Uygur: So, he spends $34 million and throughout his entire career he has had enormously favorable media coverage, in a lot of ways, the opposite of you. So, the media was attacking you actually before day one. Even when you were a candidate they were often times vicious to you in the New York media. But he got nothing but love. I don’t know that it has to do with the millions upon millions of dollars he spends in media advertising but am I off base here in saying that part of the reason why we’re even having a conversation of him as a potential real candidate in the Democratic Party is because the media adores him?

Mayor: I think it’s a little more complex. I think there are many times where I don’t think things were examined that should have been and I lay that at the feet of the folks who own the media and the leaders of those outlets that I think often had a personal relationship with him, felt very kindred with him. Remember, I don’t need to tell you about the corporate media in America, who owns it. His peer group owns the media, by and large. They were not interested in going at him. I think a lot of media outlets were worried that – literally worried he might buy them some day and I think a lot of the leaders in those media outlets did not want to make waves or alienate him.

There were certainly individual journalists who did a great job questioning what was happening and raising really powerful points but in general there’s something – there’s a disconnect, to say the least. And I worry about it now. I mean obviously in his own news organization they’re shutting down any attempt at objective coverage and they’re being overt about it. I think that has a chilling effect on everyone else when they see that and it’s like a warning to the others to stand back.

This is not what we’re about as a country. This is really scary stuff and I think right now you know the only reason he is able to do this is because he’s using his wealth to literally go around the debates, avoid the debates, avoid the early states where – avoid any actual give-and-take with other candidates, and buy his way straight onto the map. And I think the American people are pretty smart. I think they’re going to see through that. But it’s still pretty troubling that it’s even possible. And folks who are so angry about Donald Trump, and they should be, be careful. Be careful that in your anger to get rid of Trump you do not end up with just an entirely more palatable version of the status quo.

You know the fact is – and I can tell you things that Bloomberg did here in New York I agreed with, I can tell you some things he has supported nationally I agree with, but make no mistake Cenk this is the exemplar of the status quo. If all we achieve in 2020 is to take away the negative of Donald Trump and then we reinforce a broken status quo that led to Donald Trump, we’re not only standing still in many, many ways we’re going backward. Michael Bloomberg stands for the American status quo. He stands for the wealthy. He does not believe that the income inequality crisis in America had to be addressed by changing the rules of capitalism.

He is an exemplar of the current rules of capitalism. He became one of the most wealthy people on Earth playing by this rigged game. It’s been very good for him. He’s never tried to change it. He’s not going to change it and that’s what we should be scared of.

Uygur: Right, so, I never considered that he might buy the other media. He has Bloomberg News, and that’s interesting. And it’s not just that he could buy their organizations, he could hire any of the reporters at a high salary and that’s an interesting paradigm there that I had not considered as perhaps some degree of pressure as well, and he also supported George W. Bush so it gives you a sense of –

Mayor: Very overtly at the 2004 Democratic Convention – Republican, I’m sorry, Republican Convention. He went out of his way calling on people to support George Bush – I mean this is unfathomable stuff. Who else would be able to plausibly run in a Democratic primary with that little piece of baggage that they supported George W. Bush for president in 2004. I mean, come on, it would be unthinkable. The only reason we’re having this discussion is, he is throwing, ultimately, hundreds of millions, if not billions, into this race, and again that should be repulsive to every Democrat and every progressive.

Uygur: So, here’s what I’m not worried about. I’m not worried about – and I’m curious about your take on it – about him winning the Democratic primary. I think that with the current state of the Democratic electorate he has approximately, in my opinion, a zero percent chance of winning. What I am worried about is him running as a Democrat or a so-called Democrat and then saying, ‘I was agreeing with some part of the process and since Bernie won, you know what, I didn’t want to do it, but I have no choice, I’m going to have to run as an independent’ and throw the election to Donald Trump. Are you worried about that?

Mayor: I’m certainly worried that he has no loyalty to the Democratic Party. I mean, Cenk, he just – there are literally tens of millions of people in this country who could never ever have conceived of switching to the Republican Party and then supporting George W. Bush for president. So, this is a guy who clearly – there’s no allegiance to the Democratic Party. He could turn on a dime if he thought it was in his self-interest. I definitely fear the potential of trying to hurt a Democratic nominee who truly represented change. I think that’s a real danger.

Do I honestly believe that Michael Bloomberg is deeply troubled by Donald Trump? I do. I do think he wants to see Trump go, I don’t doubt that. I just think people have to be careful not to ascribe purity to a billionaire. He has been so overtly uncomfortable with the messages of people like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, so overtly uncomfortable that the rich are being challenged and that people – and I’m one of them – have said we’re in an unacceptable status quo. And look I got elected saying that what Michael Bloomberg did in New York City made the rich richer and created a tale of two cities. And I have spent six years undoing what he did and the people of New York City have overwhelmingly agreed with those changes that I have made.

So, I say that because I think this is a guy who is truly animated by protecting the interests of the status quo.

Uygur: Yeah, so –

Mayor: And if he thinks those interests are threatened, I worry to death what he does with his billions of dollars.

Uygur: Mayor de Blasio, if he runs as an Independent because Warren or Sanders is the candidate for the Democratic Party, and it winds up swinging the election in favor of Donald Trump, would he then go down you think as one of the great villains in American history?

Mayor: Oh, yeah, there’s no question about it. Look, this is a country that has gone through so much pain, and I – you know, Cenk I think something you and I both agree on. We still don’t understand the full result of the Great Recession, what it’s done to people and their lives, their families, the fear of the insecurity but also the political upheaval – it plays out every day. And if Michael Bloomberg was the person who stopped a real chance for change, stopped a real chance for addressing the issues that are affecting working people and the inequalities in this county, and somehow handed power back to Donald Trump, I think there were would be a sense that this was one of the worst examples in history of the power of the wealthy being used against the people. We can’t let that happen. And that’s why I think it’s so important that we have this conversation right away, before his millions and millions of dollars of advertising. You know, try and create the kind of morning in America, wonderful image of him. We need an honest conversation about what really happened. And there are a lot of people in this city who are willing to speak up. And I think there’s a lot of people in the media who are asking really tough questions right now, and it’s really important that happens fast, because we’ve never seen this kind of money applied before this quickly in an election. It’s dangerous as all hell. And, I do believe truth overcomes that. I do believe when people hear so many facts that don’t connect with their values and their heart and – they’re going to see literally the ad on the TV screen telling them one thing, and the facts tell them another thing. And that’s the best antidote here that those facts spread quickly.

Uygur: Yeah, another antidote would be ending the private financing of elections so people can’t come in and buy these elections. But alright, I do want to have a little bit of fun. So we have two categories here, New York Mayor versus New York Mayor. If someone put a gun to your head and you had to vote for Mike Bloomberg or Rudy Giuliani, who would you vote for?

Mayor: I have to be honest with you and say this is one where I’d actually give it to Mike Bloomberg. Because, Giuliani on top of being more and more unhinged all the time and Giuliani was an overt racist as Mayor of the biggest and most diverse city in the country. He set us back deeply and used the most horrible racial appeals. And then since then has worked overtime to support the divisiveness of Donald Trump. So, no, that’s one where I can show you a little objectivity and actually say something nice about Michael Bloomberg comparatively.

[Laughter]

Uygur: So, that’s what I figured. But I wanted to ask. Okay, one more. Billionaire versus billionaire, Mike Bloomberg or Tom Steyer?
 
Mayor: You know, I don’t think a billionaire should be a President of the United States. I can answer your question, but I do not think a billionaire should be President of the United States. There’s just no way a billionaire can be in touch with the rest of us and they all got that money somehow and the whole concept if ill-gotten gains is a pretty well established concept historically and a lot of truth to that. I will give Tom Steyer that on the question of message and somewhere where he’s put his energy, I do think that he’s offered important message critiquing some of corporate America. It would be more believable if he didn’t come out of that same environment. But you know, on a question of what he saying, and what he says he stands for – of course Tom Steyer. But my first answer really is the more elemental one. We’ve got some really good candidates. We’ve got actual progressives who have never been billionaires, who have never exploited people, who have been actually consistent throughout their lives. That should be the direction of our party.

Uygur: Are you considering endorsing a – president?

Mayor: At some point yeah, absolutely. Not there yet, but at some point for sure. And look the stakes get higher and higher all the time. And I think this is an extraordinary moment where a progressive really could be our nominee and could change the course of history. And this is a party – look, I’m someone who grew up in a family that rightfully put on a pedestal, Franklin Delano Roosevelt and whole generation of progressives that really changed people’s lives, that really reached working people and made progress we’re feeling to this day. We actually have a moment where some of that could happen again. And we have candidates that exemplify that. That’s a precious, precious moment Cenk, and that’s what we should be fighting for and I’m just hoping and praying that the intrigues of billionaires will be a backdrop here and not the main event, because we have a chance to make real change.

Uygur: Is it fair to say that you’re down to two candidates that you’re considering?

Mayor: It’s fair to say that I have particular admiration for Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. That’s absolutely true. But it’s a dynamic situation, and there’s time playing out. And all this now interacts with these other realities of how are we going to get to a progressive, what’s the best path to that.

Uygur: Alright, Mayor Bill de Blasio, Mayor of New York City, thank you so much for joining us on the Young Turks. We really appreciate it.

Mayor: And a very Happy Thanksgiving again, Cenk to you and all your viewers and listeners.