Transcript: Mayor de Blasio, First Deputy Commissioner Tucker Hold Media Availability on New Mental Health Partnership with NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital

October 24, 2019

First Deputy Commissioner Benjamin Tucker, NYPD: I guess we can begin. Good morning everyone, welcome. I’m Ben Tucker. I’m the First Deputy Commissioner for the NYPD. Over the past several months we have seen an epidemic in suicides among police officers across cities – in cities across the country. And so it’s clearly, in our view, a national problem. And that’s no less true for our officers here in the NYPD where so far this year we have had ten officers take their own lives. In June at the direction of Commissioner O’Neill, I convened a taskforce to address this crisis in the department. Over the past four months we’ve moved with all deliberate speed to put in place a variety of wellness and health initiatives designed to encourage our officers to seek help and take advantage of the range of services available to them, and obviously with a view toward preventing suicides.

This morning we are launching one of those initiatives which we call Finest Care. We are doing this in partnership with New York-Presbyterian. Finest Care is a free, confidential service that will provide comprehensive mental health services to any of our police officers asking for help. I want to thank in advance, you’ll hear from him later, but I want to thank CEO Steve Corwin as well as Dr. Phil Wilner here at NewYork-Presbyterian for their willingness to help us out as we go forward with this initiative. It’s really critical for our members. I also want to acknowledge members of the department who were part of the taskforce here this morning who provided critical support to the taskforce and our efforts as we’ve worked over these past few months. Assistant Chief Matt Pontillo to my right; Dr. Eli Kleinman, our Chief Surgeon there to Chief Pontillo’s right; and then also Dr. Lokesh Reddy, our psychologist – who’s our Director of Psychology. I also want to acknowledge Inspector Nicole Papamichael, from our Medical Division, the CEO there; and as well Chief John [inaudible] from our Personnel Bureau. And finally, I need to thank and really appreciate Gregg Roberts and Susan Birnbaum’s help from the Police Foundation for their efforts in support and making it possible for us to expedite the Finest Care initiative with a hospital. And now I’ll turn it over to Mayor de Blasio.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Thank you very much, Commissioner Tucker. I want to thank you. I know you started out as a beat cop years ago and have spent your whole life in law enforcement and a lot of it focused on the needs of our officers and how we can make sure our officers are safe and they are also well. And I know for Chief Pontillo and for so many of the other leaders of the NYPD here, it has been a life’s work protecting this city. But there’s always, always been an understanding that our officers need to be there for each other and our city has to protect our officers. And so this work that you have all done, I know it has been something that you have put your whole heart into. Making sure that every tool, every resource, every option is available for our officers. And this is an important initiative today because it’s going to save lives. I just want this to be clear from the beginning. What’s happening here at NewYork-Presbyterian will save lives because people will get help and that help will make all the difference.

There’s a lot of pain we are all feeling. This year has been a shock to all of us. Ten officers, it’s unimaginable. And all over this city people are feeling this pain, all over the department, but particularly the families who lost their loved ones. Everyone is searching for an understanding of why we are experiencing something so different than what we saw before. And all the ways that we can address it and it begins with bringing these issues out in the open. So we are going to talk today about help that will be there for our officers but it all requires people to understand it’s important to come forward. To come forward and seek help, that there’s nothing wrong with that. 

And that’s for family members too and we will talk about that in a moment. The crucial role that loved ones play in encouraging and officer who needs help to feel comfortable coming forward and accepting it, and getting informed on the way that as loved ones, they can support the member of their family going through a crisis. This is something that we are talking about in our whole society but it’s particularly important for our law enforcement officers, again many of whom feel that if they come forward in some ways, people might think differently about them. We have to dispel that notion from the beginning. And I will talk about my own personal context in a moment of what I saw in my own family. I want to emphasize always the strong thing to do is come forward when you have a problem and to ask for help. There’s nothing wrong with it.

I want to thank everyone who has been a part of this and of all the efforts that we undertake to make sure that mental health services are available and that we destigmatize the entire question of mental health because we have to do that for everything else to work. I want to thank from the NYPD, Assistant Chief Matt Pontillo and Dr. Eli Kleinman, the Supervising Chief Surgeon. Both of them with Commissioner Tucker put a lot of heart and soul and time and energy into making sure that this initiative and all the other initiatives are moving to help our officers. I want to thank Susan Herman, the Director of the Office of Thrive NYC and until not long ago, also NYPD for the important work she is doing. And, as Ben mentioned, a great thank you to the Police Foundation for all the support that they provide our officers. They have really played a crucial role on this issue and on so many other areas and thanks to Executive Director Gregg Roberts who is with us. Also here at NewYork-Presbyterian, I want to thank Dr. Judith Cukor who will be the Finest Care Program Director. So she will be the lead, making this initiative come to life and making sure that our first responders have this help when they need it. And she has a lot of history. She’s the right person for the job. She has a lot of history working with and supporting our first responders.

So we know that we are coming together here because of a lot of pain. But we also are here with a sense of resolve. And we have to have hope that making these changes will reach people who need it and save lives. And what NewYork-Presbyterian is doing is creating a separate, independent place that our officers can turn to. And not just any place, a world renowned institution that our officers can have the assurance they can turn to whenever they need. This is against a backdrop of a mental health challenge in our society that is coming out in the open like never before. We are finally acknowledging that one in five adults has a mental health challenge. We are seeing things and being honest about things that used to be swept under the rug. And I’ll talk about my own family in a moment  but as I do it I will admit, it took me a long time to be able to talk about suicide in my family, to be able to talk about what happened with my father. For years and years, even in public life I just wasn’t comfortable being open about it. And I don’t blame anyone who feels that it’s a topic that we don’t know how to talk about because we don’t. But we all have to break through together.

And when someone is thinking about suicide or talking about suicide that right there, is all we need to know that someone needs help immediately. But I think we can all acknowledge that for a long time just the way our society functioned, in fact people would say it out loud and nothing would happen or it would be laughed off or ignored. And those days have to end. On top of what we’re facing in our whole society including tragically an increase nationally in suicide across the board, we have to look at the specific challenges our officers face. And when Commissioner O’Neill and I were talking about this a few days ago, we talked about just the sheer fact that our officers see a lot of trauma.

They see a lot of human pain. They are there to help people in some of the toughest moments in their lives but they then share in that experience. Even if they are the savior, they still see that pain and they deal with a lot of stress and a lot of challenges. We are going to be doing initiatives like this but we’re also going to be working to try and find ways to make the work our officers do, the life that they live as police officers, easier because it’s not just about mental health challenges. It’s also just everything that happens day to day for an officer trying to make sure that their quality of life as officers constantly gets better because that’s one of the ways to address the stress. So, that work will carry on as well.

But we can say even against the backdrop of a topic that we’re all still learning to talk about, we can say we know some things for sure. This is a message to our officers – you’re a part of the greatest police force in the world. That is a fact. And you serve us very well and you’ve made this the safest big city in America and the people of this city are grateful. And we need to be there for you. And that’s why what we’re talking about here at New York-Presbyterian is so important because if you have a problem, we all have a problem. If you have a problem your whole family has a problem. If you have a problem you have a right to help and if you have a problem there’s nothing wrong with you. There’s nothing wrong with having a problem and coming forward and seeking help.

So, I mentioned that it was hard for me to talk about my dad in public places and part of it is, is because it never made sense to me how someone who wore a uniform as well, the uniform of the U. S. Army, was an officer, served in battle, decorated, by any normal measure a war hero, could go through such pain and decline so rapidly and not be able to acknowledge it and not be able to seek help. And having lived through it, I can tell you that people are told over and over again what it means to be strong, what it means to be the protector and the guardian – I understand why it’s hard for someone whose been told that their whole life to seek help for themselves, for someone whose been told how strong they are to act on a problem that they might feel displays weakness. But it’s not weakness, it’s part of being human. I now realize, I couldn’t understand it as a kid, but I realize it now. My dad was not weak because he had a problem, he was a human being.

In fact in his problem stemmed from having exhibited so much strength and gone through so much including battle. But at the same time we have to say there’s nothing to celebrate about holding a problem in and suffering in silence. That’s not stoic. That’s not something to applaud in this day and age because we’re losing people. We should applaud people who can come forward and say, ‘I do need help,’ and we should say there’s nothing wrong with that, we thank you for coming forward.

So, today this announcement gives our officers a whole new place to turn and Finest Care will provide a range of mental health services for all of our uniformed officers and this will start on Monday – this coming Monday. It will be 24/7 service. I want to emphasize to all our officers that you can call 24/7, it is confidential, it is free. I’m going to say the number twice – it’s 6-4-6-6-9-7-2-0-2-0, again, 6-4-6-6-9-7-2-0-2-0.

And I want to say something else to our officers and this is common sense. If you think you should pick up that phone, you should pick up that phone. If you’re lingering by the phone wondering if you should make the call, you should absolutely make the call. If you call and then the challenge you face is resolved quickly, God bless you, that’s wonderful. But if it’s going to take some time, if it’s going to take some attention, well then thank God you made that call. There’s nothing to lose from making that call.

Dr. Corwin, in a moment, will go over the details – and I will say what I don’t think he would say because he’s an honorable and modest man – I will say that this is one of the finest health care institutions not only in this city but in the world. So when we call it Finest Care, of course we refer to New York’s Finest but we’re also sending a message that this is the highest quality care anywhere. And this is one piece of a larger effort that certainly includes the peer counseling that’s available to all officers, including in their precincts, and as I mentioned before there’s another piece of the puzzle and it’s so important which is the loved ones and the family members. And again I know this from firsthand experience.

Family members can feel powerless, they can feel confused, they can be looking for answers. Finest Care is specifically for officers but for family members who need guidance, who need help, who need to know how to handle situations, 24/7, you can call 8-8-8-NYC-WELL. I want to emphasize how important it is. You should never feel alone. You should never feel powerless. You should never feel without the tools and the information you need. If an officer in your life is going through a crisis and you don’t know what to do about it, you don’t know how to counsel your loved one or what to say, call 8-8-8-NYC-WELL and there’s a trained counselor who can help you 24 hours a day and literally talk through the scenario with you confidentially and help you know what to do.

So no one whether an officer or a loved one – no one should ever feel alone and no one should ever feel that there isn’t a place to turn. There is a place to turn. There is help available. So, before I turn to Dr. Corwin, just one last point – what we’ve learned about mental health is it involves all of us. There’s a lot of different social challenges. We see something on the news we think that’s about someone else. With mental health, it’s actually about all of us because it basically touches every single family. Between mental health, substance misuse including opioids, these issues at this point basically reach almost every single family. And that means everyone can be part of making sure that these crucial, crucial options – that they are known, something like Finest Care is known to those who need it, that they know they can take advantage of it, that 8-8-8-NYC-WELL is known to anyone who is dealing with any kind of substance issue or mental health challenge. Everyone in this city can help everyone else to know that help is always available.

And we’ve seen some tragedies where something as simple as someone saying, ‘no wait, call this number,’ could have made all the difference or a family feeling that there was no shame in reaching out for help could have made all the difference. We all have to spread this word to address this challenge once and for all.

With that, again, thanking him for the extraordinary partnership in this program – we are really, as a city, as a police department, we are honored to be working with New York-Presbyterian. And they stepped forward with real passion here. It’s my pleasure to introduce the President and CEO of New York-Presbyterian Dr. Steven Corwin.

[...]

Mayor: Thank you so much Dr. Wilner, beautifully said, and I’m just going to take something you said that I thought really crystalized, I’m going to change it just a little bit, you said that the five minutes, that call, you said those five minutes might be the most important five minutes of your life. I’m going to say it a little differently. Those five minutes might save your life. That five minute phone call might save your life, might keep your family whole, so I agree with you a 100 percent and the spirit you’ve heard here, from NewYork-Presbyterian, the spirit of – this is an institution beloved in this city that wants to give back to our officers and is ready, willing, and able to do it starting Monday morning and thank you again, to the whole team, for all you are doing.

Let’s take questions from the media on this initiative and then we’ll talk about other topics. Gloria?

Question: Mr. Mayor, I just wonder if [inaudible] could walk us through what would happen if an officer – what happens when that officer makes that call? Are they connected with a counselor and then set up with someone they can come and see, make an appointment [inaudible] what is the – what does it look like?

Dr. Philip Wilner, NewYork-Presbyterian: [Inaudible] I’ll respond. So if someone makes the call, we have people – representatives, coordinators who are available 24/7 manning the phones, so there will always be a person answering the phone. That person will connect, based on the needs because different people will call with different needs, based on the need the coordinator will connect the officer with a psychiatrist or psychologist and the officer will then go to somebody’s private office and it will move forward there the way clinical care moves forward in typical circumstances.

Assistant Chief Matthew Pontillo, NYPD: Phil, you just want to describe the training of a coordinator?

Dr. Wilner: So these are coordinators who do this work in many of our programs. They are people who have clinical training to understand how to speak with somebody on the phone, how to elicit clinical information in an empathic, compassionate way. By and large people who call are anxious, by and large people who call are uncertain as to what’s going to happen, we have the experience of dealing with that.

Mayor: Amen.

Question: And you mentioned the privacy aspect of this, that the department won’t be notified if someone seeks help, why are you making that clear? Is there still something within the department that’s going on in terms of the rules about what happens to an officer if they seek help because some of what we’ve heard recently is that officers are concerned about seeking help or taking certain medication and the consequences that might have on the job, so has there been a change?

Mayor: I’m going to make a common sense point and then turn to the experts to speak in more detail.

So we have a problem in this society when it comes to acknowledging mental health problems, right?  We have a stigma, we have a wall up for everyone, not just our officers. And then on top of it, officers are concerned, and I don’t blame them because of everything that has swirled around for years, and years, and years about mental health that if they show some vulnerability it could have a negative result. That’s why we are trying to emphasize from the beginning, this is confidential, pick up that phone – I mean, we’ve lost ten good people and I believe in my heart, had they understood, at least in some of the cases, that help was there, they might have been saved. So we need people to not worry about all the other possibilities and concerns but just think I can pick up this phone, I can speak to a medical professional, it’s confidential, no one needs to know about it, it’s free, there’s just nothing in the way, just pick up that phone. That’s what we’re trying to get across first and foremost. That’s why confidential and free is such an important part of the equation. Go ahead.

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: And I would just add, just you know, and then all I’ll ask Matt and maybe Doctor –

Mayor: Hang on. Guys, we’re having a problem up front here. I don’t know – I have not had this at other press conferences. So, Freddi, do you got to do something here?

Press Secretary Freddi Goldstein: Yeah, can we just get you guys to stay down, or pick a side, no more jumping around, please.

Unknown: [Inaudible]

Mayor: Okay, this is like – guys, we’re just – just listen, everyone. This is real simple. We have a serious topic, we are having a problem back there, over here. Just, everyone, get arranged once, and we can all continue our conversation. Go ahead.

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: Okay, so what I was about to say was some of the challenges there, Gloria, that you referenced, we’ve tried to, as part of – among the initiatives that we’ve been engaged in over these past several months is to really think about and deal with the myths that are there, first of all. Try to get some factual information into the hands of our officers so they understand just what the processes is and what happens in terms of their concerns, particularly around having guns and when they are taken, when they are not having their shield, I mean we changed our policy with respect to that, so that if your guns are taken for medical reasons, for example, we will let you keep your shield because of the – you know, the Mayor alluded to it a little bit which is when you’re a cop, you know the shield, the gun, it becomes part of your identity, it’s your job and so that’s what we have begun to sort of understand that and try to deal with those myths but I would ask Dr. Kleinman or maybe even Matt to – or Dr. Reddy to chime in if – just to give you a sense of how we’re dealing with it. And I – and the one last thing I’ll say is, we do have, you know, hundreds of officers who seek out help. I mean it’s not all of them who decide, it’s not as if we’re not getting officers calling to our Family Assistance Unit, through our Family Assistance Services, or through our Employee Assistance Unit, and so forth, and other areas like POPPA.

Question: So for you guys, I guess the more pointed question would be, how does the department make that determination about whether an officer’s gun should be taken or if they need to be reassigned depending on whatever it is they’re going through or the treatment that they are receiving?

Supervising Chief Surgeon Dr. Eli Kleinman, NYPD: Let me first say that the Department is not going to be involved in making those decisions for people who are calling this number. We have had a long history, a very – a very good history with New York Presbyterian. We know what their training is over there of clinicians and they also know the culture and the rules of the job, what’s required to be a full-duty police officer. There’s misconception out there on the part of many officer that if they are seeking mental health counseling or some sort that they are automatically going to be – their duty status is going to be changed, their guns may be removed, that they may not take medications, these things are all being dispelled. The physicians at New York Presbyterian know what combinations of medications may pose a problem and which ones may not and we’ll be efficacious. So they’re going to apply all that knowledge that they have, both about the department and about psychiatry and psychopharmacology in making those determinations and we trust that those are going to be sound as they’ve always been in the past.

Mayor: Okay, yeah?

Questions: Two things, just to clarify that last point. So is there any scenario in which you can enter this program and due to a determination by a doctor or anyone else, you would in fact have your gun withdrawn or is that completely off the table, that they will tell the NYPD under any circumstances.

Supervising Chief Surgeon Dr. Kleinmann: No, all clinicians, all clergy, whether they are in law enforcement or not, are bound by the same rules and regulations that are promulgated by the State, the SAFE Act, and I think everybody understands that if somebody is over the line of posing a danger either to themselves or to the public, that there are certain actions that need to be taken and everyone will pull that chord at that time. But short of that, the NYPD will be out of the loop in the regard that the clinicians will be handling it here.

Question: Okay, and secondly, just as far as the payment aspect, so it’s free to the officers, is it just as simple, you call, it’s completely free, the city pays the bills or does your insurance – do you use your insurance at all?

Dr. Wilner: So we are not using insurance here, the city will be funding this program. It’s been funded , this has all be arranged, and the officer will not have any charges.

Question: Does it extend to concerned family members?  What would be the procedure for them to call if they are concerned about an officer, a spouse, a parent?

Mayor: Yeah, that’s – I’m going to jump in to say, no, that’s why we’re emphasizing, and please everyone this is so important to get out in your coverage, family members can call 8-8-8-NYC- WELL and again 24/7, trained counselors, get guidance on how to deal with whatever the problem that their loved one is facing in terms of mental health or have a substance problem, whatever it is. But this is for active duty officers of the NYPD.

Question: I just wanted to clarify that under the New York SAFE Act, so if an officer came to NewYork-Presbyterian and was deemed to be a risk to either themselves or to the public, you would have to remove their firearms or refer that to the New York Safe Act. 

Dr. Wilner: That’s correct.

Mayor: Mr. Mayor, given the fact that a lot of police officers have been reluctant to come to the NYPD for help, do you think you should have established a program like this sooner because this is like one step removed from actually going to a police officer rather than [inaudible].

Mayor: I’ll start and my colleagues may also want to answer that. Marcia we keep learning what our officers need. I think this crisis this year has been a shock to the NYPD and to all of us and it is clear that we need more ways for people to get help and this – you know, in putting together this initiative with NewYork-Presbyterian, really making sure officers knew it was confidential and free and independent, so to your very point that they had a whole different place they could turn. I think these last months have been a shock to all of us and we’ve come to the view that, you know, we got to put everything we can on the table to see what will work?

Question: Do you think that Thrive could have been on top of this program earlier as well –

Mayor: I think it’s –

Question: – such an ongoing problem and this was Thrive was officially reasonably established to do?

Mayor: Well Thrive was established to address the whole range of mental health challenges and this is what we know about this city and this country is there is no mental health strategy in this country and before Thrive there was no mental health strategy in this city. So I want to, you’re – it’s an important point you’re asking, like what was the origin, the origin was as we all started out together, we saw so many issues keep coming back to mental health and there was literally no strategy, no attempt  to bring the different agencies of government together to address the issue of mental health. We’ve got a long, long way to go. This is a massive societal problem, again almost every family affected and we’re starting so close to from scratch it’s really troubling if you look at the overall situation. But no, I’ve talked to the Commissioner and our colleagues about this, I think there was a strong view that the NYPD had put out options for officers, and in fact, they were taken up those options, and then this year has jolted that assumption.

Question: Do you think Thrive should have done more though?

Mayor: Again, I think on all fronts we now see that we needed to put other tools into the equation but we didn’t know that now – then, we know it now.

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: And I would just add that Thrive has been a huge asset in terms of our partnership as part of the task force activities and providing a whole range of training. I mean we’ve no trained, Matt how many – 200 plus commands?

Assistant Chief and Commanding Officer Pontillo: So Thrive has been instrumental in assisting us. We began with executive level training to acclimate our executives to the issue as well as the services available, Thrive was a partner in that. We also built a command level training program where we’ve been sending clinicians out to every NYPD command to address roll calls, talk to cops, talk about the services that are available and explain to them the warning signs and the symptoms and then to illicit feedback. We visited well over 200 commands and that process is ongoing. They’ve also connected us with other clinicians to help us develop additional training and they’ve also helped deliver mental health first aid training to hundreds of  officers so far and all of that’s ongoing and continuing.

Question: I’m just confused…I’m trying to understand whether a person who gets help loses a gun, loses a shield, keeps the gun, keeps the shield – what are the conditions that determine what level of being on the job you get to do if you seek mental help?

Mayor: [inaudible] common sense and I really think we have to put the horse before the cart and then let my colleagues talk. The vast majority of situations our officers face, like all of us, do not rise to the level where we’d have any discussion of taking away a gun or badge. And I understand it’s a very fair question, but I’m beseeching everything in the media – do not misrepresent this, this is about life and death. Most people who are dealing with a challenge, whether it is in their personal life, a financial situation, some stress in their family, whatever it is, they need someone to talk to, they need help figuring out how to get ongoing support. It never rises to this. And my colleagues – how many officers already utilized some form or another of mental health support broadly speaking in a given year, or however you want to take it. Could you give us some kind of universe here?

Assistant Chief Pontillo: So, I’ll give you the context, and Dr. Kleinman can talk about the process. So, just looking at 2018, for example, we had over 1,200 uniformed members of the service interact with the NYPD Medical Division for some reason. They had some issue and the Medical Division –

Mayor: On mental health? Just to be clear –

Assistant Chief Pontillo: On mental health issues – not physical injury or physical health issues, but on a mental health issue. Of that, more than 1,200, approximately 300 of those became a case where some additional follow-up was required. Of that 300, only approximately 100 had their firearms removed and their duty status changed because of the severity of their condition. To-date, over 80 percent of those have already had their firearms restored because they’ve gone through some course of treatment. So, that is the rare exception and it is really a case by case determination based upon the severity of the condition and the treatment that is involved, and Dr. Kleinman will talk more about that. 

Dr. Kleinman: Well, I think the Chief said it exactly as it is. Many people who have mental health challenges feel that they have a diagnosis that brands them forever. They don’t realize that very often brief therapies that are designed by the clinicians will help them ameliorate their symptoms and find solutions to their problem. And, as the Chief said, in the vast majority of cases, if a firearms is temporarily removed because of certain medications that are not comparable with that, they are, for the most part, returned in very short order. On the rare occasion that somebody has a lifelong problem or an ongoing problem that is not amenable to short, brief therapy, then other decisions are taken. 

Question: The NYPD’s mental health staff that you just mentioned bound by the New York Safe Act as well? Or was that a departmental decision to remove the firearms in those cases?

Dr. Kleinman: It’s the standards of care nationwide. 

Question: Just one thing that you said – 1,200 people were treated last year. What do you think the unmet need is? Like, how many more officers do you think need mental health treatment? And then, is there any consideration to expanding this program to other hospitals? I know anyone can phone in, but a lot of cops don’t live in the Manhattan area. So, any consideration of expansion?

Mayor: On that one, just to clarify, to the team from NewYork-Presbyterian, that the phone is the way that people handle this. But would just clarify phone versus in-person, the different options and how people go about it. 

Dr. Wilner: So, the phone that we were talking is a way to set something up. There will be an in-person office visit. And, by and large, treatment does occur face-to-face in an office. There are ways to make other possibilities available. We’re exploring some of those – [inaudible] in a new option and we’re beginning to think about some of that. That’s not in the early phases of this, but that is a possibility, we have strength in that area at NewYork-Presbyterian. So, there are ways to provide service in ways that will make it work for the officer who calls. 

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: And with respect to the first part of your question regarding whether or not we can estimate or know what number of our officers have issues, that’s not a number we can even point to, and that’s one of the challenges we have. That’s why we ask people – 

Dr. Corwin: We have multiple locations where we can deliver that care. It’s not just at 68th Street or 168th Street or Lower Manhattan, we have hospitals throughout the city and we can make the arrangements to meet the patient where they need to be met. So, I would not worry about somebody from Brooklyn or Queens not being able to access care because they can’t get into Manhattan or don’t want to get into Manhattan – that’s point number one. Point number two would be that, as Dr. Wilner said, we’re experts in tele-psychiatry and we can offer that and do that for child and adolescent psychiatry, as well as psychiatry in the emergency department. So, we think we have a very broad reach. And what we’ve committed to the Mayor and the Commissioner is that we will meet the patient where they need to be met and we’ll take care of the problem. So, if there are logistic problems. We’ll deal with that. And something that Marcia said earlier, I just wanted to comment on – this is a very thoughtful city administration, a very thoughtful mayor, and a very thoughtful Police Department and Police Commissioner. This is not a knee-jerk response, this is a thoughtful response to an emerging problem that has gotten worse. And as I said, we’re honored to participate in this. A lot of through has gone into this and it’s not just, you know, to take a class picture around this – this is a real program, which we believe will yield real results. 

Mayor: Commissioner Tucker?

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: And, you know, just to finish up – no, we can’t estimate how many of our officers will need services. But with respect to the growth of it and using other hospitals, or enlisting their services at this point – no, we’re going to wait and see. We’re rolling this out, we’ll see how this goes, we’ll see how many of our officers take advantage – and we hope many do – and then we’ll decide, going forward, just what the need may be if it tends to be too much for NewYork-Presbyterian to handle. We don’t expect that’ll be the case and we hope it’s not the case. 

Mayor: Go ahead, Anna. 

Question: Mr. Mayor, what’s the cost to the City and [inaudible] office is that money coming from?

Mayor: I don’t have that in front of me and, as I’ve said – I want to re-emphasize what I’ve said from the beginning. This is by whatever means necessary, whatever cost it takes – 

Unknown: [Inaudible]

Mayor: There you go, thank you. 

Question: And then, I had another follow-up. I’m just curious, from my understanding, off-duty police officers are required to have a gun in their presence in their home. I don’t know if that’s correct, but, you know, obviously the access to firearms is one of the main reasons why people kill themselves with guns. So, in the instant where you think, oh, I want to kill myself, if you have a gun in your home, it’s very easy to make that decision quickly versus some other suicide method. And I’m just curious if there’s any discussion around maybe why officers – or, when they’re supposed to have their guns?

Mayor: Before turning to my colleagues from the department, again I want to – it’s a very fair question – but I am concerned that we’re looking at this outside the context of this whole department. It’s 36,000 officers who do extraordinary work. You heard already that, so far, the 1,200 – and I think that was in a year –

Unknown: One year.

Mayor: 1,200 members did reach out for help, of whom the vast majority were able to get help that did not have the kind of bigger ramifications we’re talking about here. I just want us to keep this conversation a little grounded. The vast majority of members of the NYPD have not, to the best of our understanding, needed this help, but whoever does need it will get it. So, when it comes down to a situation of someone potentially using their firearms in that way, it’s a very, very rare situation – so, I just want to frame it that way. Now, as to the question of whether there is reconsideration of the policy and explaining how the policy works –

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: The answer’s no, we’re not reconsidering how we have our officers deployed and how they – when they have their firearms. We’re not asking them to leave them at the precinct. You know, remember, our job is to keep this city safe and we do that by deploying our officers whenever the need arises, 24-7, 365. And so, no, we’re not considering – nothing suggests to us at this moment given the challenge that we have of making any changes in our firearms possession policies for our officers. 

Question: As a follow-up to that, just doing quick math – I think about 6,000, if you go with the one-fifth of people, have some sort of mental health problem – about 6,000 members of the NYPD would be part of that –

Mayor: As you can imagine, it’s not as mechanical as that. But yeah, if you use a very broad approach –

Question: I’m just saying, does this program have the capacity to serve more than six times the 1,200 or so people last year who sought help?

Mayor: Again, I’m going to do one other [inaudible] on the question before turning to these folks. There’s multiple ways that officers can seek help, and, as you are hearing, they already have been seeking help in the existing way. So, I don’t think it’s going to be everyone just goes to this option. I think you’re going to see a lot of officers – and again, experts will confirm if you agree – some officers will prefer peer counseling in their precinct or other options, some officers will prefer this. But in terms of capacity and how many officers you can handle –

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: We’re partners, and if the capacity needs to be increased we’ll increase the capacity. We’re doing this at-cost and if people take advantage of this and more is necessary, we’re committing to this over the long haul for the City and the NYPD and we’ll be there. So, if we’ve underestimated the need, that’s our problem to address and we’ll make sure that we address it. 

Question: Just to clarify, this in no way replaces what we currently have, this is just a supplement. But roughly, how many do you expect because you have to plan for what the officers are going to be doing in the future. Out of 1,200, – let’s say we have an average of 1,200 every year, what percentage roughly do you think will go in [inaudible] through Presbyterian and those who will choose to stay with –

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: Dr. Cukor can give you an estimate of what estimate. She will be running the program. 

Dr. Cukor: I think what we’re trying to do is enable us to treat as many people as possible. And so, we’re starting with a team of over 25 clinicians who are ready, and willing, and able to take people who are calling, and then we’ll build from there and we’ll try to – we’ll meet the need as it comes in. I think with a program like this we can’t really anticipate. We’re urging people, please call us so we can personalize treatment for you, get you to access the care you need. I anticipate not everybody is going to call at the same time, people get discharged from treatment, but we are going to step up and meet whatever need there is, we are committed to that. 

Question: Administratively, who from the City is going to be measuring success and administering this program. Is it Thrive? Is it NYPD? And what is a measure of success here. 

Mayor: Let’s start with NYPD. 

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: Well, we’ll have sense – we won’t be violating the confidentiality part of this, but we’ve worked out a system by which we’ll at least know how many of our members have gone through or made the call and are getting services. That will be helpful for us in terms of understanding what the capacity is and whether or not we need to do more, or do something differently. So, that’s the current plan right now. 

Question: So, it is your department, not Thrive?

Mayor: It’s the NYPD, working with –

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: With NewYork-Presbyterian –

Mayor: Right, but I want to emphasize – because again, I hope everyone understands one of the things about mental health is, it’s a sprawling issue and it’s an issue where all as a government, as a society still trying to understand how best to address and, again, hasn’t been addressed historically. City Hall with all the tools we have – OMB, Operations, Thrive – everything is going to constantly interrelate with PD on everything and anything we have to do. It’s not like everything’s entirely siloed, we’re all trying to figure out solutions together. But on this, the composite I think is important since we’re not going to be asking for a confidentiality obviously to be violated, but composite information from NewYork-Presbyterian as they look across the cases they’re getting, what kind of results they’re seeing, what kind of trends they’re seeing, what kind of needs they’re seeing, what kind of trends they’re seeing, what kind of needs they’re seeing – the partnership that Steve just talked about. We are going to ask constantly, “what do we need to do to keep making adjustments here, to understand better what will work?” And that’s going to be ongoing. I understand a lot of times there’s a desire on many issues to sort of flick a switch and say “okay, we have a problem, it’s been solved.” Mental health is different, you know, mental health, as Dr. Kleinman said, a lot of these are lifelong problems, a lot of them take constant innovations in terms of how to support someone, this is – we’re going to be in this for the long haul, but NewYork-Presbyterian will certainly be able to say what they see working and not working and what changes we need.

Dr. Corwin: Absolutely, and let me add, any suicide that happens is a failure, as far as we’re concerned. That being said, some suicides will happen, and somebody who is committed to suicide will do it. What we hope is that this program will get to people before that decision of desperation and that we see the suicide rate go down. That’s going to be a multi-year process. What I think the initial thing would be is that access to care is improved, that we see the right numbers, that we get composite information from our psychiatrists and psychologists as to what problems are we seeing, how are we dealing with those problems, and that we, in some manner or means, show that we’ve destigmatized the reach out for help, and that can be for anxiety, it can be for depression, it can be for frank suicidality. Those are the things that require partnership and require trust, and I think that that’s important to build that trust with the officers to begin with, as well as with the police commissioners, and the Mayor.

Question: [Inaudible] get someone in for more immediate crisis, it sounds like the process you’re laying out may put them in the doctor’s office a couple of days out. Do you have a more streamlined path in that case?

Dr. Judith Cukor, NewYork-Presbyterian: Absolutely, so if there is urgent need, we have the capacity to deal with urgent need on that day.

Dr. Corwin: We’ll deal with it 24-by-7, if somebody needs to be seen right away we’ll make sure they’re seen right away. We have people available 24-by-7, so no one’s going to wait thinking that they’re going to commit suicide for 24 hours before being seen. We’ll deal with it right away.

Mayor: Rich.

Question: Has the incidence of suicide, across the whole society gone up? Or is it particularly seen within police departments across the country, or does anybody know that?

Dr. Lokesh Reddy, Director of Psychology, NYPD: It’s increased nationwide among the general population, adolescents, law enforcement, military, so it’s a crisis throughout the country.

Question: Studies have shown that firefighters, like police officers, have an increased risk of mental health problems like PTSD because they’re also exposed to trauma on a regular basis. I’m just curious how this program compares to resources that are available for firefighters and other first responders who are maybe grappling with the same kinds of issues that these officers face?

Mayor: It’s a fair question. I mean obviously the challenge, the crisis that we’ve seen of late has been with the NYPD, that’s where we’re focused now, but it’s a real conversation we’ll have with the Fire Department as well. And again, I’m going to keep urging everyone to represent the bigger reality – right now, something that is different in this city, not true around the country unfortunately, the difference in this city is that anyone, whether they’re a first responder, public servant, or just any New Yorker can call for immediate help 24 hours a day. And we didn’t have that go-to option in the past, we do now, 8-8-8-NYC-WELL. And so, again, if it’s a public servant, if it’s a family of a public servant, anybody that thinks there’s a problem can call that number.

Now, to state the obvious and to the previous question, if someone thinks something is about to happen right then, immediate threat to life, that’s 9-1-1, that’s always been true. So if anybody feels that someone’s about to take their life right then or someone poses a threat to others right then, call 9-1-1, don’t delay, just go. But if it’s the kinds of stresses you’re talking about, starting to build up and people need help – 8-8-8-NYC-WELL, not only is right then counseling, immediate counseling with a trained counselor, it’s also a hand-off to the next treatment, whatever it is, the next service that someone needs. But we will certainly have the conversation with Fire Department to see what they’re thinking.

Okay, we’re going to see – yeah, go ahead and then we’ll go to other topics.

Question: If a civilian has the gun in his house and there’s a domestic dispute, a fight of some sort, perhaps due to stress, and the police are called, the guns are going to be seized, so you’re giving the NYPD more latitude with their firearms? I mean if a cop comes to your house and they see you fighting with someone and they say “do you have a gun in the house” because you’re licensed, they take that gun away right away, because they don’t want anything to happen. But now you’re—

Mayor: Okay, different situations in the past, go ahead.

Deputy Commissioner Tucker: Yeah, it sounds – I mean, if I understand your question, it seems like the same rules apply, I mean citizens versus officers, if I understand what you’re saying. What’s your point?

Question: It sounds like you’re letting the officers hold on to their firearms longer than the civilian because they’re NYPD even though they are going through similar stress.

Deputy Commissioner Tucker: No, that’s not what we’re saying.

Mayor: Yeah, this is – you started respectfully by saying if there’s a fight or something, we’re not talking about if there’s a fight or something.

Question: More like an argument, not like a fist fight [inaudible].

Mayor: Again, I respect – I’m just going to, I think we should answer the larger reality, the framing of your question I think is confusing us a little bit. If you heard before the scenario, which is rare, where it doesn’t make sense for someone to still have their firearm, but the much bigger point here is we’re trying to get people to talk about their problems to begin with so we never get even near that. That’s the point that was being made by Dr. Corwin and his colleagues that we have got to get to first base here were people who have problems feel comfortable talking about their problems early before it ever gets to something more dangerous.

Assistant Chief Pontillo: I’ll just share a personal anecdote with you. So from the NYPD’s perspective, organizationally, we have a professional obligation to take care of our personnel and field the best possible police force in the world and we strive for that. But this also affects all of us on a very, very personal level as well. Many of us have personal experience with suicide, either personally or professionally during the course of our careers. Just from my own experience when I was a precinct commander, I had a young police officer who worked for me who died by suicide. I was speaking to him just a couple of days before it occurred and then it was quite shocking, and it was very hopeless and helpless feeling because I did not see any warning signs, any indicators, so what we’re trying to do now is recognize that, you know, this phenomenon cuts across all demographics, we have an obligation to talk about this the same way we talk about physical health, make sure everybody understands that there are resources available, and there’s no shame in picking up that phone.

As a matter of fact it’s sign of strength to be able to come forward. It’s very, very tough in our culture, right? We had questions before about perception and stigma and certainly that exists. The Police Department in particular is a culture that rewards and cherishes strength – is perceived of as, we’re the people who respond to a crisis, not people who may be experiencing a crisis. So all of this is being done in lockstep with all the other measures we have in place, both internal and external resources, and all the training that continues to evolve in the department to begin to make those conversations more common place and encourage people to come forward, and raise their comfort level knowing that they have options that are readily available to them and good, viable options.

Mayor: Well said, Chief. Okay, we’re going to take a break and turn it over. I really need to go on to other topics but go ahead quick.

Question: How does the NYPD, how does it, who do the numbers compare with police departments across the country? You mentioned that it’s a problem everywhere.

Mayor: Do we have that or do you need to get back on that?

Dr. Reddy: It’s – you know what, there isn’t really good data across the country, you know suicide generally for the past two decades has been increasing and cutting across all demographics. Police departments have seen spikes. The suicide rate amongst police officers as a profession, it’s one of the professions most prone to suicide. That’s nationally. We’ve seen spikes in other departments as well. Some departments, either they’re very, very small or don’t keep good records. So the data isn’t conclusive.

Mayor: Okay, Rich, finish up.

Question: Okay, very simple. So obviously this phone number is meant for the police officers only, but is it only the police officer feeling the impulse to kill himself, or is it for other police officers who want to provide—

Mayor: No. Again, I thought we’d made it clear, but I’m going to make it clear again. If you’re a police officer, first of all, you don’t have to just be thinking you’re going to kill yourself. It could be any problem. You could feel depressed, you could feel anxious, you could feel overwhelmed, you could have a family situation that you don’t know how to deal with, you could feel like – anyone of us that’s felt that kind off, the walls are closing in, I don’t know what to do, I don’t know where to turn, that’s where you pick up the phone.

Because, again, this is – we want to get people who have a challenge early and help them, not when it gets to the point only where it’s absolutely dire. So from someone who’s just feeling constantly frustrated, depressed, confused, straight on up to, God-forbid, someone who is thinking about suicide. But if another officer wants to call, so again, I want to make sure that that first part is clear because we really have to get that right, if another officer wants to call to try and help a fellow officer – someone help me on that scenario whether it’s hear or another way.

Deputy Commissioner Tucker: Well, there are a number of scenarios where that would be the case. We’re, you know, setting up this peer support network within the department and so that’s going to help. We’re going to have clinicians and psychologists that will be more in the field and connected with the borough commands and access to and regular contact with precincts. So we’re hoping that all of this will help increase the opportunity for officers that are personally in stress and know that at – Chief Pontillo happens to be one of the support people that I might say to Matt “hey, you know, can I talk to you for five minutes about something” and then it goes from there. So I think there are any number of scenarios that you can think about but the goal in what we’re trying to do is just increase the capacity of opportunities and services, make them available, and contact points at which officer’s feel comfortable and might feel more comfortable seeking help.

Mayor: But I want to just ask that, a little more specifically for everyone’s benefit. If an officer feels a fellow officer is in crisis, is this a number they can call or is better to call the other types of options you have now, just so can everyone can hear?

Deputy Commissioner Tucker: I think they can call this number, but I would – they may also call or contact our medical division or psych services or one of those.

Dr. Reddy: We have multiple internal resources too. Peer-to-peer counseling, we have a employee-assistance program, we have a employee-relations program, we have a chaplain services program, we also have POPPA on the outside. So there’s a multiple choice, and you could always, you know, we always encourage them that every member of service could go see their primary care or their private psychiatrist or psychologist, we encourage them to utilize through their insurance too, on top of it.

Dr. Wilner: And we’ve been trained in all of the resources that are available through the city and through NYPD, so if someone does call we won’t be able to facilitate connection to the right place to go to get that officer help.

Mayor: Yeah, so I’ll conclude with the same point. Always make the call. If you’re not sure it’s the right place to call, call anyway, right? Because it will get to the point the doctor made, if there’s a better option they’ll help you get to it. But the most important thing is to pick up the phone and make that call when you need help.

Okay, our friends from NewYork-Presbyterian, thank you so much, and we’ll just take a moment before going to other topics.

[…]

Mayor: Okay everybody, let’s go to – whoops, put that back on. Let’s go to other topics, other topics, yes.

Question: Mr. Mayor this is a question for you and Deputy Commissioner Tucker. I am wondering how it is that an adult film actress named Annina Ucatis who stars in movies like “Big Tit A-List” and “Fast and Sexy” receive a special tour of police headquarters including the highly sensitive real time crime center that receives 9-1-1 calls from victims. She also posted a film of an area marked NYPD personnel only.

Mayor: Yeah I have only heard the beginning of this and I don’t like what I hear. I don’t understand how on Earth this could have happened. I know it’s being investigated. Chief, I mean Commissioner why don’t you –

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: No, you got it, I mean we have the same question you have. And so, we will get to the bottom of it.

Question: Do you know who was the person who gave her access?

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: I don’t know yet. But we will find out.

Question: On that, also when did, Deputy Commissioner, when did you first learn of this tour? When did you –

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: Yesterday, yesterday evening.

Question: Did you learn about it from the Post story, from the news reports about it?

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: Well I learned about it from one of my colleagues who saw the Post story so. But in any case, as I just commented we are looking into it and we will get to the bottom of it. We will answer the questions that you are asking right now.

Question: On early voting, you said a couple of weeks ago that you thought a month was enough time to prepare. Since then we have heard from parents and teachers at schools where they are maybe going to lose their cafeteria or their gym or both for ten days this year and for 30 days next year, that there are concerns about security. Do you think the DOE should have been planning for this more than just a month and are you going to do anything, do you have any power to do anything to make sure there are less schools being used for next elections?

Mayor: Very fair question, so I was a public school parent. And I absolutely understand any parent who is concerned of course, first and foremost security, but even down to the point of whether the gym or the cafeteria wouldn’t be as available as much. Our job is to address this. It’s a brand new reality. But it’s something I absolutely think is necessary for our society to have early voting, something a lot of us have fought for, for a long time because our democracy is starting to decline and people have not been voting and we have to break through and we know early voting is a big difference maker. And particularly with the schedules of New Yorkers, I think it is going to make a huge difference. Now remember a lot of times, the most valuable early voting happens on weekends. And that will not affect the issues that parents are concerned about. But look, I think we are all getting used to a new reality. We have a kind of quiet election year, Election Day coming up, it’s a good chance to figure things out. Next year is not going to be quiet at all so you know we are going to have a lot to do from what we learn this time. If we think there are other locations that can work just as well, that’s something that I am certainly open to but I want to emphasize, that we will make sure there is security. Remember when voting is happening there is a police officer present, not just school safety, a police officer present. As is true at all polling sites, and that’s true with early voting. We will make sure buildings are secure. If there are some of the activities that happen in the school, that sometimes won’t be as good because of early voting, I would honor – I would argue that to make our democracy work, that is a sacrifice worth making. But we want to minimize it, obviously. Go ahead.

Question: Push for less schools next year?

Mayor: Again, we can’t project that. We got to first understand based on this experience because we are going to have one right now. How it goes, how much we can minimize the challenges. What are all the alternatives we have, you know? Some places, some other alternatives might work great, some might not but it’s just too early to tell. We do want to address the underlying issue. Erin?

Question: I have a police off topic and then a regular off topic. The police off topic for both of you, President Trump’s lawyers said yesterday that if he were to shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue he couldn’t be arrested or investigated. I’m wondering if in fact he were to shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue would you arrest him? Would you treat this as a crime and handle like any other?

[Laughter]

Mayor: If anybody shoots someone they get arrested. I don’t care if it’s the President of the United States or anybody else. If you shoot someone, you should get arrested and we would arrest him.

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: We would, I mean it’s a simple as that.

Mayor: Period. I mean, it’s not – I mean I don’t know – anyone who calls themselves a lawyer who could say that should not be a lawyer, let’s start with that. But if you shoot someone that’s a crime and no one is above the law. He would be arrested, period.

Question: And the other question is the allegations against Council Member Andy King. Do you believe that he should resign? And if he does not, do you believe the Council should expel him?

Mayor: It’s – I want to first express sorrow. I’ve known him for some years, but I’ve known his wife for decades. It’s a just a very sad situation. This is – you know, public office is supposed to be treated with care, and clearly that didn’t happen here, and I’m pained. Some of things I saw really surprised me and pained me. So, the bottom line is you have to cooperate with an investigation. If you don’t cooperate with an investigation, right there there’s a problem and on top of that, to retaliate against people who did I think is disqualifying. So I think the Speaker is right.

Question: So, do you believe he should be expelled? Because the Speaker –

Mayor: Again, I hope that we can end this. Because it’s very, very sad. I hope that the Councilman heeds the Speakers point. That would be the best way to resolve this.

Question: Just to follow up on that. The Speaker said that he should resign. Do you think the Councilman should resign?

Mayor: Yeah.

Question: Yesterday, there were two unprovoked attacks on MTA riders. A woman was shoved on a subway platform into a train. That video has actually gone viral. And three women were attacked on a city bus. I’m wondering how you think that happens? But what’s your message to passengers who don’t feel safe riding transit [inaudible]?

Mayor: Okay, Marcia, I think we just have to see there’s two profound realties here. The first is anyone who is attacked anywhere or anyone who feels unsafe, it’s our job to address it. That’s what the NYPD does every single day. If we see anything that suggests a problem, we’re going to make sure that resources are there to address it. More resources are being put in the subways for example, and as we know when there’s a place in the city where’s a problem, NYPD surges additional officers there. We’re going to do that every single time where we see a problem. We also know that in terms of the MTA overall, crime has been driven down for years and years by the NYPD very, very effectively. And that we are at a point overall in this city where crime is about the level as the 1950’s. And I’m just not going to allow the conversation to suggest anything but the reality. I talk to New Yorkers all the time who, in their own lives, see how profoundly this city has changed. They’re very happy about the fact that the city has changed. They’re very proud of what the NYPD has done. They do not think it’s the 1980’s, it’s not the 1980’s. We’re never going back there. So we see a problem, we address the problem. That’s the simple reality.

Question: You think that this has something to do with the overall mental health issues that the city is facing?

Mayor: Again, I think there’s always a challenge with mental health as we discussed earlier. But I go back to the essence of things. We have the best police force in the country that whenever there is problem, makes the adjustments – crime is down to a level that no one imagined possible and it’s staying there and that’s incredibly good news. But there’s no doubt at the same time where problems are based on mental health it’s because we’re reaching people too late. And we’ve got to reach people early in their challenge if we’re going to really profoundly change things. Go ahead.

Question: So, there’s an incident that was reported in Bay Ridge earlier this week where a woman at a department store told a Muslim woman in a hijab to go back to her country. And the woman’s husband said that police officers he spoke with said they could not investigate the incident as a hate crime or what not. I’m wondering why that’s the case, and whether that incident is now being looked at as a hate crime?

Mayor: I don’t know the details.

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: I don’t know the details either. I can get back to you on it.

Mayor: Yeah, we have to know more to be able to comment.

Question: And related, so Mr. Mayor, last week you commented on the discrimination complaint [inaudible] NYC Ferry by a group of Muslim families. You said that they were refused service because of the security issue. I’m wondering what you’ve learned in the past week about what happened, if what the investigation has uncovered and what actually [inaudible]?

Mayor: We can get you an update today. I have not gotten the update yet on the investigation. Look, again, any discrimination is unacceptable. If it happened, there has to be changes, and there has to be consequences for that. But I don’t have the answer on the investigation right now. Yeah.

Question: Any updates about last night’s police-involved shooting?

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: So, actually I’m going to be – later this afternoon we’ll be doing an update at 1 Police Plaza, put out some more information about where we are in the investigation.

Question: On that, we did have a report that it had been friendly fire. Is there anything you can say about that?

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: I’ll talk about it at one o’clock or 1:30 pm I think, or whatever that is scheduled.

Mayor: Go ahead.

Question: I was wondering if you can respond to lawsuit filed by Officer Pantaleo over his termination. I mean I suspect that one of the reasons why you did not express your opinion for several months was that you knew that such a lawsuit was coming. So I’m just curious your thoughts on that.

Mayor: My only answer is this process was handled properly. Our lawyers are quite confident of that. Yeah.

Question: Realizing the subway surge to contact EDP is brand new basically but are your officers making more contacts? How is it going so to speak in less than 48 hours?

Mayor: I’m going to start and then you jump in.

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: Yeah.

Mayor: So, I just happened to talk to Chief Delatorre in detail about this yesterday. I think the NYPD is doing an outstanding job. And again, let’s recognize that, you know, the NYPD in addition to everything else ends coming in contact with a lot of folks with mental health challenge or substance challenge, also folks who are homeless for whatever reason. And what we are seeing is the more contact, the more people who are accepting services. And this is very, very important for changing the overall reality. I think what NYPD did in transit and I give them a lot of credit coming up with the approach to summonses and saying to homeless folks in this case you know, you got a situation here where you’re going to get a summons, but we’re going to give you an alternative to come and get treatment and support, but you have to come in. It’s actually working extraordinarily well. And I think that’s going to help both reduce homelessness in the subway, but also more importantly get people to the on-going treatment they need. So, some of this is early obviously, but I like what we’re seeing so far.

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: Yeah, no, I think that’s right. You know, Chief Delatorre is – I mean it’s granular. He pays careful attention to what’s happening in the system. And so he pivots quite well and this is one example of that type of police activity in terms of offering options when you can and when you should.

Mayor: Yeah.

Question: In terms of 14th Street, the Department of Transportation is calling it a success. Do you plan on riding the bus?

Mayor: Oh, sure.

Question: And when is the last time that you rode a bus and are there thoughts about using this kind of busway in any other major street as the City Council Speaker is calling for?

Mayor: We can let you know last time I rode a bus, and I definitely intend to ride it. And yes, we are encouraged by what we see. It’s very funny, you know, in the weeks leading up to it, it was going to be the apocalypse and I want to say for the record, you know, that this is one when the proposal came to me – and I was the decider as George W. Bush liked to say, a man I quote often – the – I wanted to do this because we had a particular situation with the L train and it was time to try this approach. But I also didn’t want to pre-judge the approach. I wanted to see – and not just over a couple of weeks – I wanted to see over a substantial period of time if it would work, and if it would work it opens up some real possibilities for the city.

So, it went from it was going to be the most horrible thing in the history of the world to now a lot of people are saying this is amazing, let’s do it everywhere. I’m like, whoa, whoa – first of all, it was never the most horrible thing, second of all the jury is not back yet but we are encouraged. We’re definitely encouraged – and if it proves to work and if it proves not to have a lot of unintended consequences then it could become a real option for other places as well. Yes?

Question: Mr. Mayor, I watched on Tuesday as you approached a group of three protestors outside of Max Fish ahead of that nightlife announcement. I also watched the day before when you ignored hundreds of Success Academy’s fourth graders who were rallying for a new middle school in City Hall. So, I’m wondering why you didn’t stop to talk to them and what kind of lessons that gives for students on civic engagement.

Mayor: There is no lesson there at all honestly because depending on what’s going on in my day, I might have the opportunity to stop, I might not. It all depends on the circumstance. And we’ve been down this road with Success Academy a whole lot of times and they very cynically use young people in their strategies. And we have said to them – and said it publicly, the Chancellor said it – that we’re going to accommodate them with some space but we have to make it work. And we’ve had lots of problems before with co-locations that did not work and we’re trying to get one that will work. And I’m just a little tired of the game they play. And on top of that if for some reason we couldn’t find a space that worked, they get money from the City because of State law to find an alternative location. So, it’s – I’ve been to this movie before. Yes?

Question: There have a been a few rallies in the last few weeks, and a report from the City Comptroller earlier this week about the homeless and about this plan – this very expensive plan – to create more permanent affordable housing and saying –

Mayor: When you say this very expensive plan – which very expensive plan are you referring to?

Question: The homeless – forgive me, I don’t remember the name of the plan, but all of these rallies pointed to this very specific plan to build more permanent affordable [inaudible] –

Mayor: So, we’re going to – I’ll do my best to speak to you but I don’t know which one you’re specifically talking about. But go ahead, go to the core of your question.

Question: This was in response to the murders of the four homeless men in Chinatown and just how vulnerable they are and how the need for housing is more critical now than the need for shelters at least that’s –

Mayor: I think that’s a – will all due respect to – I haven’t seen the specific report so I’m just going to speak very broadly. It – we have to have an honest conversation about folks who are on the street and are homeless. And I’m learning every day but this is something I started working on when I was General Welfare Chair in the City Council back in 2002. The folks on the street often are very resistant. There’s a reason they’re on the street. It’s not good. I’m not happy about it. So I want to be honest about it. If it was simply, ‘hey we have a place for you to stay,’ we have that right now. They are offered it all the time.

And a reminder that it’s not just that they are offered immediate shelter but we’ve been very, very public about the fact that for a lot of people who had gone into shelter we’ve been able to get them to permanent housing. Certainly not instantly – that’s not a reality. But over time over 100,000 people in the last six years have gotten to affordable housing which is a vast number of people and really needs to be considered. I feel like it gets left out of the discussion. I’m like 100,000 people is a lot of people. But the problem is – this is why HomeStat is so important.

You’ve got people on the street who are contacted hundreds of times being offered help, who will not accept it and we have to keep deepening those strategies. So, for anyone even well intentioned who says if we just had housing that would solve street homelessness. No, that’s not the truth. Most street homelessness is about mental health and substance abuse challenges. That’s what we have to solve first before we can even get people into housing. Yes?

Question: [Inaudible] question about President Trump. Your office announced over a year ago – or you announced over a year ago that the City was looking into taxes that Mr. Trump and his businesses may or may not owe to the City after that big New York Times [inaudible]. What’s going with that investigation? Is that still ongoing or –

Mayor: It was a real investigation. I’ll find out the latest because I thought that series of articles raised tremendous questions and obviously had potential ramifications for City taxation. So, damn good question – we’ll get you an answer.

Question: Thanks, Mayor. Why did the City change its mind and the rule regarding the Supreme Court gun case – New York State Pistol and Rifle Association versus New York City that’s set to be heard soon? Why care, if the case is heard even if the City says the case is [inaudible]? And are you completely comfortable with that change in the rules that allowing people that legally own guns in the city to travel appropriately with their firearms since this was not the stance of the City for so long?

Mayor: I’m not a lawyer so I’m going to speak as a layman here. We worked – the NYPD, first of all, there’s no stronger voice for sensible gun safety legislation and rules than the NYPD. And the passion – if you listen to all my colleagues but particularly I’ve heard Bill Bratton and Jimmy O’Neill speak with very personal passion about why gun safety laws are necessary to protect our officers let alone our civilians. Everything we did was – City Hall, NYPD, City Council – everyone working together to protect strong gun safety laws. We ended up – and again I’m speaking as a non-lawyer – we end up with a complicated technical situation in terms of what was happening in the courts and we had to address that. And everyone has been unified that this was the best way to protect long term real and usable gun safety laws. I don’t know if you have anything to add but that’s my best attempt at summary.

Question: Commissioner, I’m curious in terms of the Andy King report in the City Council, is – are police considering any criminal probe into his behavior. I know that the Council outlined some violations of certain City statutes.

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: Well, we haven’t made any decisions along that line yet as far as I know.

Mayor: Yes.

Question: I just had one quick mental health cop related question I forgot to ask. I’ve been talking to an officer who is undergoing a disciplinary probe and he said he went to the Employee Assistance Unit because he’s dealing with a lot of stresses and having to do with the department and his family. And he said the Employee Assistance Unit told them they couldn’t help him because he was under a disciplinary investigation. Is that true? Do they not help cops who are being –

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: I don’t know under what circumstance that would occur, I doubt it.

Chief Pontillo: That is absolutely not true. So, whenever a member of the department is involved in a serious disciplinary matter our Employee Assistance Unit reaches out to them and makes it clear that they are not there to weigh in on or be involved in the disciplinary matter but are there to offer them services if they need it or there are family services as well. So, without knowing all the facts of that case, I could not offer an opinion on that case but in general, no, we separate the two but we also have to balance those equities but the Employee Assistance Services are available to everyone.

Mayor: And if anyone misinformed the officer we need to address that. So, again, I’m glad you’re raising it and we want to respect the confidentiality of your conversation but –

Question: Specifically he was put in Viper where a lot of cops who are being investigated go and it’s like a three-hour commute from his home and he’s dealing with a child custody [inaudible] –

Mayor: Well, I’d like –

Chief Pontillo: We can look in that –

Question: He was given highway therapy and that no he couldn’t [inaudible] –

Mayor: We want to see anyway that we can address the concerns of the officer and every – Chief will follow up with you and obviously [inaudible] but I’m saying further if any other member of the department told someone they couldn’t seek help because they were in the disciplinary process, we need to get to that person and correct that mistake. Because the disciplinary process does not presume the outcome. It’s – we’re in America. It’s innocent until proven guilty and you’re a member of the service, you get the support available to everyone.

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: And I just follow up because you know for now for the last five years, one of the things that we’ve focused on is discipline and how it’s handled and leveling the playing field and this whole notion of building trust outside is also important to build trust inside, and how we treat our officers. And so we’ve gone out of our way to make sure that the system and the way people are disciplined is appropriate, the charges are appropriate, that the penalties are appropriate and certainly when it comes to people who need help, we’re not that notion of highway therapy if that’s the phrase he used, sending people to the other end of the City from where they live, it’s just not something that is part of the scenario today. It hasn’t happened in five years as far as I know. If it has, we’ve worked hard to make sure that that’s not the case –

Mayor: And we’ll address it.

First Deputy Commissioner Tucker: [Inaudible] we’ll address it.

Mayor: Thank you, everyone.