Transcript: Mayor de Blasio Appears Live on the Dean Obeidallah Show

August 20, 2019

Dean Obeidallah: Right now I’m very happy to welcome back to the show, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio is a 2020 Democratic candidate for president but he’s really here to talk about the Eric Garner case and what happened with the NYPD. Mayor, how are you tonight?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: I’m doing great Dean, how are you doing?

Obeidallah:  Fine, nice to talk to you. And first of all thank you for coming to that Muslim Caucus a few weeks ago in DC. And I tried to talk to you but you were busy over there. So I am glad we got you here tonight but I appreciate that as a Muslim American that you came down there and spoke to the community there and answered questions, I was really appreciative.

Mayor: Thank you Dean. I thought it was a really important event and I was really honored to be there.

Obeidallah: So I watched your press conference today and you know, you were at the top there – you can sense the emotion. You talked about when that – 2014 when you first saw the video and what went through your mind. Just remind people, what went through your mind in 2014 when you saw Eric Garner killed before all of our eyes?

Mayor: Dean you know we are all human beings and we watched a human being die who was unarmed and a father, a son, you know and just it was horrifying. And I think for every one of us there was something, I certainly felt this – the world is not making sense, this isn’t the way things are supposed to be. This guy should still be alive. And you know, I think it was so painful for everyone and the sense what does it mean? What does it mean for us going forward? Are people going to feel safe, are they going to feel this could happen to someone they love? And then the deep desire to see some kind of accountability and it took so long. I mean it’s been a very, very painful episode. But the moment today that I think really needs to be noted and this is something – you know the history Dean, all over this country but here was a police department and not just any police department, the NYPD actually creating accountability in its own ranks, a fair, impartial trial, NYPD officials saying no, that’s an unacceptable use of a chokehold. There has to be accountability and the Commissioner making that decision ultimately. That’s a powerful moment of change. And it took a long time and I have endless anger about the role of the Justice Department or the non-role of the Justice Department, holding everyone up. But I have to say in the end, you know I’m sure a lot of your listeners would say, is a police department going to rigorously, carefully objectively look at its own ranks and make tough decisions and here you saw the NYPD do that. And that’s something that’s important for our future.

Obeidallah: And why, so people can understand this because I mentioned earlier, I had Michael Hardy from National Action Network, that the City Charter and State law gives the Commissioner, not you the power – it’s my understanding to fire a police officer. And if I am wrong please correct me.

Mayor: No, that’s exactly right.

Obeidallah: Alright, so why did it take five years? I know at the last Democratic debate you were getting heckled a little bit and afterwards you were saying well, we were deferring to the DOJ but ultimately it’s really the Commissioner’s decision. So help us make sense. We see a man get killed by a police officer who’s violating NYPD rules of a chokehold, for 20 years you can’t use it. A guy crying out for his life, I can’t breathe, 11 times, literally they won’t even stand him up so he can breathe. How does he not get fired within days, or weeks at least?

Mayor: Dean, it’s very hard for people to understand because it is all about the law and when you think about accountability the first question always would be, not someone’s employment but did something criminal happen?

Obeidallah: Right.

Mayor: And that’s where first, the District Attorney for Staten Island took the case, District Attorney determined not to bring charges but instantly the Justice Department said they were pursuing it. And the United States Department of Justice, I have to say except for the last couple of years, we for decades saw the Justice Department as a place that was focused on civil rights. Would often step in and be the arbiter and that was true in so many cases, so many tragic, famous cases involving the police. It was the Justice Department, the US Attorney would step in. And so when they said – the United States Department of Justice said do not act in this case, New York City, do not act because that could undermine what we are trying to do. Do not put out evidence, do not have a trial, let us do this. And that was in the previous presidential administration I remind you. All the history we knew suggested of course, we have to defer to them, they have much more serious charges, they are the Justice Department but what we saw here was entirely upsetting, no decision of any kind for five years. And that’s unacceptable and we will never let that happen again. But the central point Dean is, we shouldn’t let the tragedies happen again. And this is a tragedy that was absolutely avoidable. But now the question is in New York and everywhere, are we going to change how we police and after that tragedy we changed everything. We taught every, literally 36,000 officers were retaught how to de-escalate a situation like that. To wait for back up, to bring down the temperature, try to find a better way to address the situation. Every officer getting implicit bias training now, which we know everybody needs, especially folks who carry a weapon. And the fact that every officer has a body camera which is both important for transparency and accountability both ways. You know, for officers and for civilians alike. But it also affects behaviors. It makes people think. And it’s a very different city and a very different police department. And that to me, as long as we had been waiting and as painful as this has been, there’s still something to learn here. That there was justice in the end but in the meantime there were a lot of changes and now we have got to make sure there is not another tragedy, by doing this hard work, every place in this country.

Obeidallah: And Emerald Snipes-Garner, one of the children of Eric Garner today was with Reverend Allen. At a press conference she talked about – she thanked the Commissioner. She said she wished it was earlier but she’s forward looking now to the Eric Garner Law and other preventative measures so there’s never another Eric Garner again. And you’ve already touched on some of the things you’ve done in the Police Department here. And it’s changing for the better, I was on with Michael Hardy and I mentioned to him under Bloomberg, with my community, the Muslim community, Bloomberg had us surveilled left and right. We didn’t feel any connection with the police, we viewed them as an advisory. Now there is over a thousand Muslim Americans serving in the NYPD. I have friends who are captains now and they are part of our community. So that’s community policing at its best.

Mayor: And we ended the surveillance Dean –

Obeidallah: Exactly, yes I know that.

Mayor: We ended the horrible bias surveillance against the Muslim community and it opened up the channel of mutual communication and respect with the police and community. And that’s what we have to do with every community.

Obeidallah: Right, I agree. And you stopped stop and frisk as well. And Bloomberg was all upset about it then; it was absolutely the right thing to do. It was disproportionately effecting black and Hispanic people in this city, and they weren’t getting arrested –

Mayor: And he said – and remember when I said we had to end stop and frisk they said this guy would fall and crime and chaos would ensue and we’ve actually gotten safer six years in a row because police and community are actually talking to each other, working together, which is much more essential to safety than it’s ever been given recognition. It’s finally – we’re finally creating a dynamic where you can have a unity and a mutual respect between police and community. That’s, that changes everything

Obeidallah: Yes, I agree with you. I’m chatting with Mayor Bill de Blasio from New York. So, today at the press conference you mentioned about people wondered if they would be left without justice for the Garner family. Today, it clearly was a big step in that direction. Five years it took, we understand why. What more in the future – will you support the push for the Eric Garner law? Are there other things that the City and State can do to prevent these tragedies from happening again?

Mayor: Well, so first of all, the prevention to me is the most essential part. We need to retrain officers everywhere in this country, and everyone needs to be taught de-escalation, implicit bias. I think body cameras should be absolutely universal. The three key things we did after the loss of Eric Garner transformed the New York City Police Department. And I think the neighborhood policing strategy which is this whole idea of actually getting officers to stay in communities, build personal relationships, like actually get to know people first name basis, and understand that the only way to ultimately defeat a lot of what we’re addressing with crime is to get the community 100 percent on your side and connected.

Obeidalla: Yeah.

Mayor: That strategy could be used everywhere in the country. It should be supported, and incentivized by the federal government. We should do the exact opposite of stop and frisk. Stop and frisk divided people, particularly as you said it was an affront to young men of color. It was punitive, it was aimed at them. You still have the President of the United States calling on police departments to use stop and frisk. We should go the opposite direction. All the things we did here could be done everywhere. And then I’d say, you know we want to make in the future that there is a required a timeline for the Justice Department. If G-d forbid there is a tragedy, they don’t have the right to wait five years to decide to do nothing. They have to be held to a timeline. I support the idea of congressional hearings. I don’t know why the Justice Department didn’t act. I support the idea of legislation that would require the Justice Department to take a stand to make a decision in a limited period of time. I think that would make a huge difference.

Obeidallah: And – by the way, Mayor, you mentioned Trump and his ideas. Trump Tower is here in New York, you’re the Mayor of New York. Can you condemn Trump Tower? Is there any way we can do that somehow?

[Laughter]

Use imminent domain. I talked to Governor Murphy in Jersey, he’s my friend. I’m like, could we just take the golf course and build like exist ramp from the Turnpike through it, anything. By the way Donald Trump tweets on everything. And did not mention this case whatsoever today, surprised at all?

Mayor: I think a lot of times when something doesn’t fit his world view; he doesn’t know what to do. And again, I think it will sink in over the coming days, Dean. That the most respected Police Department in the country ran a fair and objective disciplinary process and decided that one of its own needed to be held accountable for breaking the rules. I think that doesn’t fit Trump’s world view. He has this cartoonish horrible police versus community world view. And he obviously demonizes people of color. And the notion that Trump wants to go back to a policing that failed. And what we’re doing in New York City is the exact opposite. And Jimmy O’Neill our Commissioner deserves tremendous credit. He was the architect of neighborhood policing, and [inaudible]. And a lifelong cop, 34 years on the force – knew that the way forward was for officers and community members to actually bond. And either way, if – you know, we all believe in keep our officers safe.

Obeidallah: Sure.

Mayor: Keeping officers safe depends on them having that close working relationship with the community. To having the community back them up, give them the information they need. Keeping our officers safe also means things like tough gun laws to keep illegal guns out of the hands of criminals. There’s so many things that the Trump world view would – in reality, so much of that Trump world view is part of what not only makes communities less safe, it creates division. It’s actually not good for our officers either. So today what’s he going to see when the most respected police department in the country follows the rules, has the fair and impartial process, a highly renowned police leader gets up there and says I’ve made a decision based on the facts. That just doesn’t conform with Trumps world view.

Obeidallah: Right, I agree with you. Mayor, I want to thank you for your time. I know it’s a busy day. I saw you on the news talking about this, and I look forward to chat with you more. Hopefully we’d love to have you in studio we’re right here in Midtown. Come on over, we’ll chat longer, talk about the 2020 race. But I wanted to talk about Eric Garner, and I appreciate your time today so much on this, and your work on this issue.

Mayor: Thank you, Dean, I’ll be back.