Transcript: Mayor de Blasio Appears Live on The Brian Lehrer Show

July 12, 2019

Brian Lehrer: It’s the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. And we'll begin as we usually do on Fridays with our weekly Ask the Mayor segment, my questions and yours for Mayor Bill de Blasio. Our phone lines are open 2-1-2-4-3-3-WNYC, 4-3-3-9-6-9-2. It's been a few weeks. We were off last week. We were on tape and the week before that, it was the day after the Democratic debate and we did special coverage. So, Mr. Mayor, hi there again. Good to hear your voice.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Good to hear your voice, Brian. Good to be back.

Lehrer: And let me start with some breaking news that's just from the last few minutes. I don't know if you've even heard this yet, but Secretary of Labor Acosta is resigning and of course he's been under pressure for his role when he was a U.S. Attorney in south Florida 10 years ago. And the plea agreement with Jeffrey Epstein – President Trump had been standing by him as many Democrats, but not really any Republicans were calling on him to resign over the last few days. Now that these new Epstein charges and old things that weren’t done back then have come to light. Your reaction?

Mayor: Well, my reaction first as a question of justice, absolutely. This is justice, Acosta did the wrong thing – let someone who was clearly a predator to get away. And it's right that he resign. I think you raised a very important point. Look, the country is going through a huge awakening that we have to change everything when it comes to sexual violence, sexual harassment, the way women are treated in our society, the way the law treats women in our society. This is a moment of profound change and the Republican Party is missing this entirely starting with the fact that we have a President of the United States who has been accused, I believe now it's been by 15 separate women of acts of sexual violence or sexual harassment. And there's not yet been an investigation into the President on that. I'm not for a moment taking away from the seriousness and importance of the Mueller probe, in terms of the Russian interference in our elections, in the President's role, and his team's role in that.

But it's very strange to me, Brian, that there've been sustained allegations, again, both violence and harassment, for now over two years. And where is that investigation? Where is that systematic effort to get to the truth? So I hope that this leads to that kind of investigation. But beyond that, the Republican Party now is it an untenable situation that they don't know what to do with it. They've got, you know, a harasser in the White House. They won't break with them overwhelmingly, but for a few. And I think women all over America are looking at this and coming to the conclusion that even when someone has done something overtly wrong, like Acosta, the Republican Party closes ranks around a man and will never stand up for women. And this is profoundly important for the future of this country because if Republicans don't recognize that this country has changed and women are demanding really full equal rights and true protection, then I think in the 2020 election you're going to see women abandon the Republican Party on a historic level.

Lehrer: There may be another story here which might make Acosta's leaving a bad thing. In one way there's been some reporting or speculation that he actually hasn't been as anti-labor as Trump wanted him to be. You know, as much of a hawk in this area from the right as some of Trump's other appointees have been in their areas and that there was a drum beat of people on the right who actually wanted to use Epstein as an excuse to get rid of Acosta so Trump could appoint more of a hard liner when it comes to actual labor policy. Do you have any reason to believe that's the case or any warning you want to issue along those lines?

Mayor: Well, Brian, I don't know that history. I wouldn't be shocked if that were the case. But in the end, that pales in comparison to someone who did not do their job at a moment where they have to protect our society from a predator. The bigger question to me is, you know, can you trust any Trump appointee to be able to provide justice for working people? The answer is no. What you see consistently, there've been a few Trump appointees who had conscience and stood up and said, for example, on the issues around the border and the separation of families that it was wrong. And it couldn't go on this way. And to a one, they were either fired or they left as a matter of conscience. So I don't think there is such thing as a Trump appointee who manages to do good in the midst of the Trump administration.

I think systematically they get blocked or removed. I think what we need of course is a political solution and it's a very, very soon. We're talking about a year and a half until the election of 2020. That's where our focus has to be. Not praying that, you know, there'll be some moderation in the Trump administration. In the beginning, you'll remember Brian, a lot of folks wondered would Trump – you know, he had, he had oftentimes supported Democrats over the years with his donations and he said he was going to work with everyone – that became so clearly untrue in the first weeks of his administration. Steve Bannon and all of those early influences won the day and continue to win the day in the sense of Trump having a locked on a hard right strategy and a strategy that's totally focused on reinforcing the one percent the, you know, the wealthy and the powerful and not working people and Democrats have an amazing moment to be the party of working people right now and to create a contrast.

What I fear, Brian, is that Democrats are not stepping up to that moment right now. You know, NAFTA is a live issue. The treaty can be put before the Senate right now. Trump is sending the Senate a new NAFTA that in some ways is worse than the old NAFTA and Democrats are considering supporting it. My message I put out yesterday is all Democrats should oppose any NAFTA treaty. We have to get rid of it and start all over with a trade agreement that's about working people and really create a separation from Trump on labor issues. If we don't do that, folks are going to look at – working people are going to look at both parties and think they're same. If we say we're really the party of working people and we prove it, the 2020 election becomes a landslide for the Democrats.

Lehrer: Let me go on to another Trump policy that is very relevant to New York City right now and that is the president's declaration that ICE will round up about 2,000 people beginning on Sunday targeting New York specifically and about ten other cities. If those people have already been ordered deported and haven't shown up in court, we know you find the idea cruel and abhorrent. Is the City taking any steps to warn or protect people?

Mayor: Absolutely. Brian, I mean the first thing to say is this is a disgusting, cynical policy. This is President Trump – absolutely a political agenda. He's simply trying to convince working class and middle class American citizens that immigrants are the cause of all their economic woes and misery. And I said this in the debate that the folks who cause the pain of American working people are the big corporations, the one percent, the folks who had real power, not the immigrant who works in the kitchen or works in the field making sub minimum wage. So one, this is Trump simply using this as a wedge issue moment. It's cynical as all hell. He's not going to be able to remove any substantial number of people from this country. And if he did, it would wreck the American economy. But what we don't know, Brian is, is it real or not?

Last time he had this grandiose pronouncement, he was going to remove everyone, all 11 million people, then he stopped. Now he says he's doing it again. We don't know what's real, but we are ready. We're sending messages out through all immigrant communities to be very clear with people about their rights. Anybody who has a question or concern or thinks they are seeing ICE activity can call 3-1-1 in 200 different languages. We can provide service and support to tell people what's really going on. This'll be nonstop from now until Sunday and beyond if needed. We have lawyers available for anyone who is targeted. We will get them a lawyer and the City will pay for it because the last thing we want to see, Brian, is families torn apart.

This is my great fear. Beyond all the horrible legal issues, policy issues is the reality of human beings – families that are about to be torn apart. In many cases, the breadwinner sent away, the rest of the family left here. Some members of the family, citizens, some not – torn apart. We, in New York City, have been very clear, we will provide lawyers to keep families together and defend their rights. So we're going to have that deployed and ready for Sunday.

Lehrer: We have a call on this that I'm going to take and it's Jenny in the Bronx. You're on WNYC. Hi, Jenny.

Question: Hi. Good morning. Good morning, Mayor de Blasio. I'm with NYCD-16 Indivisible, a local grassroots Indivisible group and I'm co-chair of the immigration rights committee. And first off I'd like to thank you for what you just said, but a second part to that would be how do you intend to communicate this to the immigrant community?

Mayor: Excellent question. Thank you for all you do and all that Indivisible has done, which is extraordinary and is really changing this country. We have a very strong Mayor's Office of Immigrant Affairs led by Bitta Mostofi. She and her team have been constantly, over weeks now, out in communities because we obviously had a false alarm a few weeks back and we've assumed this was coming. So the word has been spread through trusted community leaders and institutions, houses of worship, etcetera, reminding people of their rights, reminding people that do not believe something is happening unless it's confirmed by us. And that's why, again, folks can call 3-1-1 anytime and get that clear answer.

And the fact is that we're making sure people know about their legal rights and they're making sure they know that they are going to get a lawyer if they need one to protect them. So, we don't know if it's – this claimed raid is real or not. We don't know when, how – we can't trust anything the Trump administration says. What we can tell people is there is a place to turn for valid information. There is a place to turn for legal assistance and that no New York City government personnel will participate or assist ICE in any way starting with the NYPD, that if anyone is afraid or concerned, you know, they can – whether their kids go to a school or the police precinct, Health and Hospitals, they can go any place where they need assistance and they will, of course, be treated with absolute respect and not asked their documentation status, which is something we refuse to do.

So, we're going to do everything we can to protect people and really give people good information because there's so much fear out there. There has been since Trump took office, Brian, but these moments, the fear spikes and one of the most important things we can do is get people to truth.

Lehrer: And for Jenny in the Bronx, and everybody who's concerned about this, when we're done with the Mayor at 10:30 am, we're going to do a half-hour specifically on preparations for these potential raids beginning Sunday with the head of the New York Immigration Coalition. So we will be giving out even more information. But before we leave this topic, Mr. Mayor, let me ask you one question about the policy itself because the president is obviously doing this because he thinks he's got a wedge issue that will divide Democrats. The argument is they're rounding up people who've already been through a legal process and ordered deported for whatever reason and are not giving themselves up. Now, that's not the same as asylum seekers who are just arriving now to seek safety. It's not the same as people whose status hasn't been determined yet. It's people the president emphasizes who have already been ordered deported after court proceedings. So the president would ask, if you believe in the rule of law, why wouldn't that be a specific group of people who you would not be seeking to protect?

Mayor: Brian, I believe in the rule of law, absolutely. But we have a lawless president and we can't trust a word he says. He has turned ICE into a political operation. He's turned to ICE into a punitive operation. This is why we should abolish ICE and create a brand new agency. We do need safe and secure borders. We do need a legal immigration process. There are rules and standards that need to be held. We do that in New York City and we do it successfully in how we approach our immigrant community. But I'll tell you something, I don't believe any of this. I don't believe him on who they're going at. We saw a very systematic effort in the beginning of the Trump administration to target undocumented folks who had not done anything wrong ever in their time in America, and they were targeted the same way as someone who may have committed a serious offense.

There's no rhyme or reason to this. It's about stoking fear and it's about creating a political environment that will help him in his re-election. That's what's going on. And he's – by the way, he did the same thing when he sent troops to the border. That was a political act that should never have been allowed by the Congress, Democrats or Republicans alike. So, the fact is that I don't start from the assumption that this is an application of the rule of law. If we wanted to have a rational process in this country, we start with comprehensive immigration reform – path to citizenship for folks who are here acknowledging this 11 million or 12 million people here. They're not going anywhere. They're going to be part of America for the long-term and part of our economy. Why don't we deal with it? Why don't we stop this don't-ask-don't-tell madness and just deal with it. And then have, if we need a guest worker program to bring additional folks in, you know, all the kind of coherent things that would allow us to be a unified country. But the underlying politics is an attempt to turn everyday Americans against immigrants even though everyday Americans share a lot of the same needs and a lot of the same realities with immigrants. And that's the political fight we have to fight.

Lehrer: Jason in Brooklyn. You're on WNYC with the Mayor. Hi, Jason.

Question: Mr. Mayor, thank you very much for taking my call. I appreciate the time. I use Citi Bike to move around the city whenever I can. I find it's often better than the buses or the subway [inaudible] many opportunities. While bike riders like me contend with the DOT’s [inaudible] insufficient but at times is pretty outright, dangerously designed bike infrastructure, I know that you know we have to deal with drivers of vehicles much larger than us doing kind of whatever they want. Yesterday I was on the East River bike lane down by Bowling Green and I was almost run over by a van. Thankfully there happened to be an off-duty police officer right there on the scene to scold the driver. But this is kind of a regular occurrence it feels like. Drivers do whatever they want, they park wherever they want, they do what they want, and there's really little law enforcement. Thankfully you announced that crackdown down a few weeks ago that cops will actually enforce the existing law, like parking – parking violations and giving parking tickets to vehicles that are parked in the bike lanes. But why does this require a special crackdown and why does it expire on July 21st, which is only the end of next weekend? What happens after next weekend? And are we back to square-one where we weren't just a couple of weeks ago? I don't have to tell you how many bicyclist deaths there have been this year, so are we sticking with the status quo? And why does this regular enforcement of driver behavior suddenly end on July 21st? What happened?

Mayor: Jason, that was the original announcement and I have since, 100 percent, gone beyond that and said we're going to do this open-ended, it has to continue. So, I appreciate your point very much. I don't think it should have been a time-limited reality, and I have instructed the Police Department, DOT to make this an ongoing effort. Look, we're in a crisis right now and it's been horrible. I understand that the anger and the frustration that bicyclists are feeling and, you know, what the families are going through, and we can't accept it. So, here is the overall reality – Vision Zero – and I want to remind people, Vision Zero is being done here in a way that really needs to be done everywhere, everywhere in this country – that we're saying the goal is zero fatalities and we're going to move heaven and earth. And we did big things from the beginning, like lower the speed limit – the default speed limit in New York City at 25. Everyone thought the sky would fall. It didn't. People are learning more and more and they've got to slow down. We put in a huge number of speed cameras. Because of the Legislature, we’re now going to have a vast number of speed cameras – 700 schools are now going to have speed cameras. We're putting those in rapidly – huge number of streets are being redesigned, intersections are redesigned. But to the point you're making in enforcement, Jason, I think this is really crucial. Every year we've been increasing the amount of NYPD enforcement on speeding and on failure to yield. But I've instructed them now to throw everything they got at clearing the bike lanes too. All of that has to continue and all of that has to grow. So, the point is we will keep building out Vision Zero every single year. It will get bigger literally every single year. And for five years, we drove down fatalities consistently. We intend to do that again. But the only way it works is changing behavior, and, of course, the motor vehicles are the problem. And so, the way you teach drivers the new reality is a lot of education, a lot changing the physical environment, but ultimately people have to know there are consequences and see that there's real consistent enforcement. And that's what you're going to see.

Lehrer: Does it take even more than what you just articulated? Some of the stats that you know – for the audience's benefit, 15 cyclist deaths already this year compared to 10 all of last year. You've already labeled it an emergency and done the things you've just been describing. But the problem seems more structural, in that six of the cyclists killed this year were hit by trucks and people are saying it reflects the growth of Amazon and other truck-based delivery services becoming more central to shopping. You've already limited the number of Uber and Lyft cars on the road after that number had exploded before you took office. Are you considering or will you consider any cap on trucks?

Mayor: It’s a great question, Brian. I think we have to look at everything. That's not a proposal that I've heard previously, honestly, but I think we have to look at everything. But I would argue, the question is not something as simple as, you know, all trucks. It is about – it’s one part about education – everyone needs to be educated – drivers of vehicles, pedestrians, bicyclists. Everyone needs to be educated because the City is getting more and more crowded, more people, more tourists, more jobs. Those are good things on one level, but they create real challenges. So, we’re going to have to do a lot of education, we’re going to have to do a lot of enforcement, because, under any scenario – if you have a limit, if you don't have a limit – the question is how people behave and there has to be a sense that enforcement is around the corner at all times.

That's why these 700 school zones with cameras is going to be a big, big deal because that's a lot of the City that will feel the effect of that. So I would argue to you, it is structural on one level, but it is structural in the sense of we're talking about human beings in a small space with vehicles that they have to learn to understand differently – everyone – any kind of vehicle, but, of course, motor vehicles are the core of this. They have to understand that, that the assumptions of the past that, you know, a car or truck could do whatever the hell they wanted and our society was built around automobiles for God's sakes, for decades – those days are over. It is about understanding we all have to live together in a small space, more crowded than ever in our history, and it's going to take a different approach and everyone's got to slow the hell down and recognize that there's going to be consequences if they don’t. And I think we have to continue to improve the laws, because although there are some consequences in the case of fatalities, depending on what happens, there's not enough. I think there's a lot more – we wanted to get action in Albany in the case of medical situations where drivers could create a harm to others. We didn't get everything done there we wanted from Albany, we need more. But I think, in general, you know you've got to correct the penalty structure so that folks understand if they make a mistake with their car and they cost someone their life or injure someone grievously, there’s going to be serious, serious consequences. To some extent, that’s how you change human behavior.

Lehrer: Sky, in Tribeca, you're on WNYC. Hello, Sky. 

Question: Hi, Mr. Mayor and Brian. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm calling today to raise awareness about a public health issue, which is lead contamination and poisoning and ask about the City's accountability. Last fall, I was diagnosed with lead poisoning and it was determined that my exposure came from a gut renovation of an apartment in my building, and that left the entire building covered in lead dust. And by the time we determine the cause of my debilitating symptoms and the source of contamination, both the contractors and previous owners of the apartment who did the work were long gone, leaving us the condo owners liable to clean and remediate the lead in the building, and, in my case, cover the expenses on my medical treatment out of pocket. Through this ordeal, I discovered that there seems to be little to no lead testing abatement regulations prior to construction work. Maybe there's paperwork being filed somewhere, but nobody seems to be following through. This seems like a massive oversight with the amount of construction in our city and the age of most buildings undergoing renovation. And further, doctors are typically not ordering blood lead level tests for their patients who come in complaining of lead-related symptoms. It took me over a year to get a diagnosis for my mystery ailment and I say four doctors before anyone thought to test for lead. There's a grave concern here that the lack of oversight paired with the lack of testing by doctors may mean this issue is much more prevalent in our city than we are aware of and people maybe being subject to unsafe living conditions and breathing conditions and maybe getting very sick and not even know why. How can the City help fix this?

Mayor: Sky, I'm very – I’m very sorry you went through what you went through and I want to see how we can help you right now, but you're raising also a very important larger point. But first are you make sure please to give your information to WNYC. I would like – the woman has been leading our anti-lead effort, Kathryn Garcia, to talk to you directly because right now we're just talking about Vision Zero with traffic and ending fatalities on our roads, we have a vision zero approach to lead too, we want to end lead exposure in New York City once and for all. It's down 90 percent since 2005. We want to eradicate all lead exposure and I think it can be done, but you're raising a really, really important point that there may be a piece here that's not getting the attention it deserves. Now, in your case, I am certain we can find those contractors and help you hold them accountable. So, we have to get the details of what happened. Our agencies have to get to work with you and make sure you get legal assistance, etcetera, because if those contractors did something that endangered you they have to be held liable in my view.

The second point on the larger question of do we need to change the approach to construction renovation out there and require private contractors to do a different kind of testing before and after? I think it's a very, very fair question. Kathryn Garcia has created the initial plan to eradicate lead exposure in New York City, but there's always going to be pieces added to it as we learn more because there's never been a city wide blueprint to take lead out of our lives all together. This is the first time. So, you're raising something that we need to focus on and I'll make sure she speaks to you today so we can figure out what next steps we have to take.

Lehrer: Sky, we will put you on hold in a minute and take your contact information. But because you said that your lead poisoning was not diagnosed for a year and you wonder if other people may be in this situation, maybe it would be helpful for somebody out there right now for you to state what a few of your symptoms were that didn't get recognized that people should be at least asking the lead question about if they're experiencing them.

Question: Absolutely. It's sort of creeped on me very slowly, but it started as what felt like mono when I was a kid, you know? And then from there it just sort of exploded into feeling completely lethargic all the time, debilitating exhausted. There was a point when I couldn't lift my limbs. I had short term memory loss, vocabulary loss. I couldn't remember some of my oldest friends’ names. It was really difficult for me to write and formulate sentences, which was difficult cause I'm a writer and it was a – it was a very exhaustive process that, you know, I consistently went to doctors complaining of these symptoms and I was consistently told them my blood panels were normal and I could’ve been suffering from depression related symptoms. And yeah, as I said, it took four doctors before anyone thought to even test for it. And it not a standard test that doctors are ordering. I spoke to my G.P. and they said it's really hard for them to order it and get it covered by insurance.

Lehrer: So those fatigue and cognitive symptoms in particular –

Question: Severe fatigue and severe cognitive function and some physical impairment. I couldn't work out for a year. I could – I wasn't very social or very physically active. I was unable to like lift very light things, especially my arms.

Lehrer: Sky, hang on. We're going to get your contact information off the air and it sounds like the Mayor's Appointee Kathryn Garcia is going to be contacting you. Hang on.

Question: Thanks, guys.

Lehrer: And actually coincidentally, Mr. Mayor, I had a lead question to ask you too. It's about a WNYC investigation that you may know that already into lead paint in New York City schools. And for listeners who aren't familiar with the story, WNYC found peeling, chipping lead paint in four public elementary schools along with lead dust levels that were in some cases a hundred to a thousand times city's current safety standards for lead dust. And the station isn't naming the schools because our reporters are trying to evaluate a systemic issue, not use a sampling to single that - to single out the sample to schools, which might indicate a systemic problem. But in response to the story, all 12 members of New York City's Congressional Delegation sent a letter to Schools Chancellor Carranza and the City's Health Commissioner, Dr. Barbot, requesting immediate lead dust testing to determine the scope of the problem citywide. And my understanding is that the current inspection system looks for the presence of lead paint, not the condition of the paint – the dust – which is the real indicator of risk expert say. So, long set up there, I realize, but you know, that's so people understand the story. And the question is, will you do what our members of Congress have asked for and test for lead dust?

Mayor: Yeah, the – so of course we're going to test for everything related to lead. There's no question and there's been an extensive lead testing regiment for a long time. Look, the story's very important. Let me – let me start at the beginning. I appreciate WNYC doing this story because we have to, when it comes to eradicating lead, and again, Brian, I want you to hear this difference of what we're doing now compared to any government in the history of New York City, we’re saying the only acceptable outcome is the full eradication of lead in our society. And we believe we're in reach because it's lead paint exposure cases are down 90 percent since 2005, we believe we can get to zero and that's we're going to do, especially look, the biggest impact with lead is on a children under six. That's the most sensitive impact and obviously we must have absolute lead free schools. So we appreciate, I appreciate WNYC did this report. I have said very publicly, I have two differences with WNYC. I think there's a way you can through a third party to tell us which schools because we're going back over every school now, but it would sure as hell would help to understand what specifically you find that would help us do the work better without giving away any sources. And second I think what WNYC did was not necessarily with trained technicians. What we do have to - people have to have a certain certification to do the testing. But the, the core point is you did something important. We take it seriously in the last two weeks, the Department of Education has inspected 4,000 classrooms, the specific places where kids under five would be –

Lehrer: Just the visual inspections or I think what these members of Congress are calling for is in all of those classrooms up through first grade because kids under six can be in first grade to test for dust?

Mayor: One – that is correct, that it is for all kids under six. So, that basically means 3-K, Pre-K, Kindergarten – in some cases, it means first grade and in those classrooms, yes, where we have any classroom where there's a child under six, we'll treat it the same as the others. We're going to look for everything and we have been the – again, we'll put out the methodology and we'll put out the results of the inspections of these 4,000 classrooms in the course of this month. We'll get all that detail out and then we're going to continue and inspect again to prepare for the first day of school in September. So, the bottom line is, I share the view that you're putting forward, that if it has any possibility of affecting a child. We have to not only identify it, but remediate it. And there's one immediate thing we would do, in any case, if we see a situation where children should not be in a classroom, we will isolate that classroom until it's remediated. And we'll do that in all schools. But again, this is only in schools that have kids under six years old. I want everyone to understand that, that's what the law says and that's where the health vulnerability is. But we will do all of the above. We want to get all elements of the lead problem.

Lehrer: Before you go – a couple of things real quick. The Governor has been out talking this morning to reporters and he seemed to criticize, I don't think he mentioned your name, but he seemed to criticize your plan to close Rikers Island and replace it with borough jails. The Governor said, just a little while ago, “siting,” meaning choosing those sites, “is politically very difficult, community opposition, everyone could have guessed. So it turns out, surprise, surprise, surprise, years later they can't find the sites. This was an unworkable plan. It was unworkable from the day it was announced” says the Governor. “What should they do? That's for the city leaders and people who suggest they want to be Mayor and City Council Speaker and members to come up with a plan that works.” What about his “surprise, surprise, surprise. This was never going to be workable”?

Mayor: I'm just going to tell the people of New York City the facts, which are very different from what you just delineated. There will be a vote this year on the four sites for the community-based jails. The Speaker of the City Council, to his great credit, Corey Johnson, has been steadfast in supporting closing Rikers Island once and for all and opening community-based jails that can really focus on redemption and doing things the right way. I believe in it 110 percent and the four Council members representing the communities where they would be had been steadfast as well. And we're going to do a lot to support those communities and provide a lot of other benefits as part of this process. The sites are absolutely clear, we're moving forward with them. The votes will happen in the next few months and we will be off Rikers Island faster than we originally predicted. Our jail population is down 30 percent since I became Mayor. That is literal, specific – ending mass incarceration – 30 percent fewer inmates. We will go down very greatly again, we're going to get down to a point now and we projected with only be 4,000 people in our jail system in a city of 8.6 million and we are getting off Rikers and tearing down the jails on Rikers and having a whole new reality there. But the community-based facilities are going to be built in the next few years and it's working. And look, in addition, we got rid of solitary confinement on Rikers for juveniles and young people up to 21. We are changing in so many ways of the way we train and the way we protect people in jail to help. And most importantly we're providing education and training for folks in Rikers who used to get none so they can come back into society. We're giving people transitional jobs so they can leave incarceration, get back on their feet and never go back to jail again. I'll defend this any day because this is actually how you end mass incarceration. And finally, in 2018 we arrested 150,000 fewer people in New York City than five years earlier. And the number-one way to end mass incarceration is to not arrest people who don't need to be arrested in the first place. So no, this is, this is moving forward very aggressively and we will close Rikers Island.

Lehrer: Final thing, I know you're going back to Iowa this weekend. I'm curious how much you feel like you're living a double life these days? You go on national media and they're asking you about Trump and Medicare for All and NAFTA and all that stuff – and then you've got your day job where shootings are up, cyclists’ deaths are up, the Rikers plan is meeting resistance. Are you feeling it as any kind of disconnect?

Mayor: The disconnect, respectfully, is the way you just interpreted our city. Murders are down – we're on a historic rate on the way to the fewest murders we've ever seen. Crime has been down consistently now for the sixth year. Jobs continue to go up – graduation rate continues to go up. Pre-K is here, 3-K is expanding rapidly. I feel like there's a lot of big, important things that are happening in the City and are going to continue to grow. And yeah, we've got some challenges, but we're going right at them very, very aggressively and making big changes. The Rikers plan is a great example. So yeah, there's opposition. Brian. Hey, it's New York City. Congratulations, there’s opposition. But we're going to get it done and we're going to change the world that way and we're going to send an example for the whole country.

But no, to your bigger point, what I said to people from the beginning – you know, the things that affect all of us in New York City, a lot of them could only be solved on the national level. We can't have a health care system that truly serves that anyone and everyone until we have universal health care, that can only be done fully at the national level. We're doing our own version guaranteeing health care here in New York City, but we could do so much better if we had a university of health care system nationally, and if we reduce prescription drug prices that can only be done nationally, we need an infrastructure plan to help mass transit, to help public housing, billions of dollars that should be coming to us. I can't do that alone. That needs to be done nationally. So I actually think there's a tremendous consistency between running the nation's largest city and running for President of the United States and calling for the kinds of changes that would help New York and everywhere. That can only happen if the American people decide we're going to be doing something very, very different. So now it actually feels like tremendous –

Lehrer: Are any of those things that you just mentioned relevant to cyclists’ safety, shootings, and Rikers Island?

Mayor: 100 percent. The fact is that the mass transit infrastructure and the whole physical infrastructure of the city would be so much better if there was actually a federal commitment to infrastructure spending. We've tried to – if we had better mass transit, more people would take mass transit, they'd get off the roads, they stopped driving as much. If we had better roads and bridges that people would be safer. [Inaudible] You can use mass transit funding for bike lanes. There's so many things you could do if you actually had a federal funding to support it. So if you say health care, absolutely national issue, infrastructure, national issue, go down the list. Prescription drugs – go down the list of the things that affect the everyday lives of New Yorkers, and a huge percentage of them are first and foremost determined – public housing. $8 billion that we need right now to make public housing as good as it should be. I've put in $6 billion, the federal government's put in nothing new. Of course, if we had public housing included in an infrastructure plan, it would revolutionize our approach to NYCHA. So yeah, I think it is – I, by the way, Fiorello LaGuardia, our greatest mayor ever, if he were here on the show right now, he would tell you the only way he did the great things he did in New York City was because he had Franklin Delano Roosevelt and the federal government on his side, and that was a time when New York City made a huge step forward coming out of the depression and creating the kind of support for working people that we've come to expect here. Of course, you need the federal government on your side and that's what I aim to achieve.

Lehrer: Mr. Mayor, thanks as always, talk to you next week.

Mayor: Thank you, Brian.