Transcript: Mayor de Blasio Participates in Conversation With Reverend Michael Walrond at First Corinthian Baptist Church

March 20, 2016

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Thank you. Pastor, I love being in this church - so many amazing things are happening here. My salutations to the First Lady for all the great work she is doing.

[Applause]

And I just want to say, all my life I wanted to be invited on The Journey.

[Laughter]

So, you know, it’s more important than Late Night and all of that for me. I wanted to be on The Journey. And Pastor thank you - not for just what you do here, but for what you do leading for the entire city of New York, our Clergy Advisory Board.

[Applause]

And bringing together clergy of all backgrounds together - those meetings we’ve had at City Hall are so moving because its every kind of clergy in common cause. And you’re the leader everyone looks to and respects, so I want to thank you for that.

Reverend Michael Walrond: Appreciate it.

[Applause]

So, I want the people to know - I know some of your story. I want - and you could give us the highlights of your journey to being mayor. Where did this start? Where did this desire come from?

Mayor: It started in the home, in my family. And my family was very much touched by history. And that doesn’t mean always good things. My family went through the immigrant experience with all of its challenges. I’ve heard from my mother and her sisters what it was like to be put down because they didn’t speak English as their first language - they spoke Italian, and how they felt different, and how they felt apart - and what that grew in them in terms of understanding what other people went through. My dad fought in World War II. He came home missing half a leg. It was blown off in the Battle of Okinawa. So, I saw what war meant, and I saw what he left behind not just physically, but emotionally. And he had - he was a very noble and good man who then went through more and more trouble. Unfortunately, fell into alcoholism and lost his way. So, I saw the effects of decisions made on high that come down to the grassroots and what they mean for all of us. My oldest brother was - spent a lot of time worried he would be sent to Vietnam. He ultimately wasn’t, but that was a conversation in our household. Both my parents went through the McCarthy period [inaudible] even though they were two people who cared deeply for this country and just wanted to do good and were not a part of anything they were being accused of, like so many other people in the McCarthy period. So, history came home to us in so many ways. And for me, I think, was impossible not to serve after all that. It was impossible not to try to be an actor in society and to try to right some wrongs. And the other thing I’d say is - you know - I grew up in the age of the 1960s and 1970s protests. I saw people making a profound impact. I remember the Watergate summer - being riveted to the Watergate hearings and seeing the country sort of changing before your eyes, and seeing some people actually stand up and speak truth to power and in many ways prevailed. So, for me it was a calling, and I know you can relate to this deeply. It was a calling. It was never a question. It was a calling. And sometimes I doubted what form it should take, and sometimes I doubted whether the journey could be completed - whether the mission could be done, but I never doubted it was the only choice.

Reverend Walrond: Now, something I’ve heard you share and talk about - and some people may know, but I’ve always found interesting - the story about the evolution of your name. Talk to us about that a little bit.

Mayor: Well - so as I said - it’s a very positive origin in that my mother, her sisters, her father were very, very powerful influences on my life. And my mother took me back to my grandfather’s hometown near Naples in Italy when I was 15 years old. And I got to - I literally walked into the room where my grandfather was born in this small town in Southern Italy. And it opened up a whole new understanding about origins and heritage and who we were and cultural survivals and what part of us comes from our ancestors. My original last name was my father’s last name, but I unfortunately - and again I honor my father for all he did for his country and all the good in him, but I only unfortunately got to see the bad because by the time I came along he was descending very rapidly. And I could tell, even as a young man, there was so much good, but I was afflicted by seeing our family fall apart and seeing what he couldn’t overcome. And as a young man with your father as your role model that was very difficult. You know, I know I’m not alone in feeling that. And I felt an affinity for my mother side of the family, and right in the middle of all that - just to show the many ways we are influenced in life - in my high school I took a class about great books and I was assigned the autobiography of Malcolm X, which was the most influential book on my upbringing in terms of my education. And the way Malcolm came to the realization - a very, very different reality, obviously, but it sparked the thought in me. The name that he had received was not really his name. My situation, again, profoundly different, but it sparked to me a question of what identity do you feel is your true identity. What represents who you are? And I felt that my mother’s side of the family was the family that brought me up, and I wanted to honor that. I wanted to connect myself to that more deeply. And it was my true self. And - you know - I think there was something about the autobiography that just - it was one of those lightning bolt moments that made me think we all have to find our own definition. We can’t accept something that - you know - doesn’t feel right, doesn’t feel real. We have to find our own definition. By the way, why should it be a patriarchal definition? Maybe a matriarchal matrilineal definition made more sense.

[Applause]

Reverend Walrond: Yes, that makes sense. What - I mentioned something before you came out and I think it comes from your experience, but one of the things that [inaudible] me to your narrative and your message when you were running for mayor was the fact that you talked about - you know - the tale of two cities. And you talked about those in New York who are struggling and who are suffering, who are having a hard time. And I here there’s much talk about one city. What does that one city mean to you?

Mayor: You asked the essential question. I think it has everything to do with what’s being furiously debated in this country right now. [Inaudible] I think it helps make the point. It’s a simultaneously inspiring and dangerous moment in America. I choose to be inspired, but I am very vigilant about the danger. The inspirational elements are that people are talking about inequality in all its forms and doing something about it, whether it is the fight against mass incarceration, whether it’s Black Lives Matter, whether it’s the discussion of income inequality and the recognition of the wealth and power being concentrated in the one percent in an unacceptable fashion. All of this is happening simultaneously. And the fight for $15 - that movement, which has had such a profound impact and we want to see succeed here in New York State in the next few months. And we all have to help make it happen. All that’s happening, so when you think about that that is our nation struggling for its identity against a backdrop of others who are peddling - Trump and others peddling xenophobia and racism and division.

[Applause]

So, here in the place that I think historically has been one of the beacons and one of the great laboratories of change - you know, I’m one who believes that the most important evolution of our government and our politics that have happened in the history of this country was the New Deal. And the new deal happened in New York City and New York State first and then became national. So, this is where we’re supposed to be the model, and yet when I ran for office what I saw was a more stratified city than ever before; a greater concentration of wealth and power than ever. And by the way, the richest man in the city was mayor. Think about that for a moment.

Reverend Walrond: [Inaudible]

Mayor: So - and that was not just about income inequality. I thought income inequality was the piece that touched all elements of the equation and the thing that was creating a profound danger because it meant also the city was not going to be a place for everyone anymore if we didn’t solve it. But it also had to do with stop-and-frisks. It had to do with so many other things that suggested inequality across the board. So, one New York to me means a city, first of all, for everyone. We break down barriers - a city that is open to all;

[Applause]   

a city that everyone can afford to live in.

[Applause]

And I don’t say that because it’s easy. It’s incredibly hard. I have a plan to create enough affordable housing for half-a-million people.

[Applause]

And a very important vote this Tuesday in the City Council that’s going to allow us - from the very first time in New York City history - to require real estate developers to create affordable housing when they create major developments.

[Applause]

So, it’s not easy to make it affordable, but the goal is a city that every kind of person can afford to be in; every kind of person has actual opportunity in; a school system that serves all children regardless of zip code.

[Applause]

And I want to give one point on that - one point, we’re starting something, and I’m very proud of what we’ve done with Pre-K for All and I think it’s making a real impact all over the city, but we’re going farther.

[Applause]

We’re going farther. We’re going to have Computer Science for All - computer science education every grade, every child. And here’s an example that is what one New York looks like as opposed to what we had before; before - I hope you’re all not going to be shocked by what I’m about to tell you, better be sitting down -

[Laughter]

- before advanced placement courses for college level education in high schools were in some schools. They were not deemed appropriate for other schools. They were deemed natural for some schools and too much of a reach for other schools. I announced a policy last year that there will be advanced placement courses in every single high school in New York City.

[Applause]

So, that’s One New York.

Reverend Walrond: So, tell me - we have a couple more minutes - tell me how your early years of activism - as an activist informed how you lead this city.

Mayor: I am - I wouldn’t trade it in for anything. I wouldn’t trade it in for anything. I learned so much about the need for audacity; about the importance of never believing the conventional wisdom; about the need to go to the people always. Elected officials should be community organizers. I believe this. By the way, President Obama proves that a community organizer can be a very good president of the United States.

[Applause]

And elected officials - and I know you see this through ministry that a pastor is a community organizer too. We should all be saying how do we educate, energize, motivate the people for change because real change - sustained change comes from the grassroots.

[Applause]

That’s where it happens. Social change, real change has always come from the grassroots. So an elected official should think that way. Now, as an activist I got to think about the way you reach people, connect with people, hear people, and not the unfortunate reality, I think a lot of elected officials have been trained to think, sort of they’re up here and the people are down here, and that just doesn’t work. It doesn’t work. You have to remain humble and connected to the people.

[Applause]

So, I had such extraordinary experiences - I was involved in a movement to end the United States’ intervention in Central America. I was involved in a movement to stop nuclear arms proliferation. I was involved in the incredible movement here in this city that lead to the election of David Dinkins as Mayor in 1989. These were big-change moments, and it taught me that if we aren’t making change, then we aren’t really public servants. 

Reverend Walrond: That’s right. Here’s a question, I think, for many people who see where you are now and they may be a future mayor of the city here. But there’s something that struck me, and I want to you share this part of your story. When you were running for mayor, there were people who believed you did not stand a chance, and who were very vocal about it - they were saying it. What was it that kept you focused and moving forward in spite of the avalanche of negativity when people said you did not have a chance to be Mayor of New York City? What was it that kept you going?

Mayor: Well, Pastor, I remember very vividly the conversations where people had very warmly put their arm around me and explained how deluded I was, and how nice a guy I was, and how sad it was I didn’t understand reality. I bet a lot of people here are familiar with the phrase - this far by faith. 

[Applause]

I think that’s part of the answer. It’s believing in a larger vision - believing in the need to change the status quo, and that it could be changed. I looked at the conventional wisdom - and that’s why, again, I’m not a fan of conventional wisdom. Conventional wisdom, by the way, in the year 2016, is being turned so far on its head, that conventional wisdom should be banished at this point, but, I assure you, it will be back soon. You know, but the fact is, I could feel it - I could feel that people in this city did not accept the status quo. I could feel it. And I could feel that those who were ready to make change were passionate about it. And I went places where I thought I would not necessarily get the best reception, and I talked about why we needed to pass paid sick leave, and I talked about why we had to end stop-and-frisk as a broken policy -

[Applause]

- And I talked about why we have to tax the wealthy so we could have pre-K for all our children, and people responded. And so, it just said to me - you know what? I just learned - ignore the conventional wisdom, ignore the consultants and the insiders - just listen - just listen, and if the people demand change, they will find their way, they will bring you to it. 

[Applause]

Reverend Walrond: And I have to say, with that, I had my own moment. After I endorsed you, I got calls from people who were trying to figure out why. At the time I was contemplating running for Congress, and, I mean, I got calls, and emails, and looks like I had done the worst thing in the world, like I had sold out the community, that I could never be a leader making that decision. And when you won the primary, it was like I won the primary.

[Laughter] 

I was out in restaurants - they were like, congratulations. And it felt like I won the primary for mayor. But, before you go, I want you to do something. I want you - there are many lessons you learned along your journey to being Mayor of New York City, along your journey as a father, as a husband - if you had to say three things that are critical for you in your journey that you could share with us today, what would those things be?

Mayor: I will. And let me just say, you did win because I know there are some people who were the difference-makers in that election, and you were a special voice of conscience, and, when you move, a lot of people move with you, and I will not forget that. 

[Applause]

Three things - so, I’ve alluded to them a little bit already. Humility - humility in all things - and I have to tell you, this kind of role I have requires more humility than ever. It’s been a very humbling experience at times. It’s been one where I’ve had to really think more deeply - kind of get out of some of the patterns that I might have fallen into, and, you know, be humble about my own failings and the things I have to work on. So, I would say there, it’s actually - if you have a great vision for yourself, it actually requires humility to achieve it. So, that’s the first point.

[Applause]

The second point might sound kind of the other end of the spectrum, but I believe is consistent - is audacity. It’s amazing how people talk themselves out of their own power. 

[Applause]

Reverend Walrond: I would say, say that again. 

Mayor: I will.

Reverend Walrond: Say it again.

Mayor: It’s amazing how people talk themselves out of their own power. 

[Applause]

Reverend Walrond: You all will hear that again in 15 minutes.

[Laughter]

Mayor: You may borrow it.

[Laughter]

But the - and I’m a living example, because, again, Pastor Mike was very kind when he talked about the early months of 2013. People just thought I was dead as a doornail - didn’t have a chance, not even worth discussing, fourth place, fifth place in the polls. And, you know, if you listen to that negativity, and don’t go with what you have inside, you might be swayed - you might be swayed by it. But I heard the people, and I believe I had a vision, and I believe it fit the times. By the way, you know, I couldn’t have been clearer in 2013 - tale of two cities, income inequality. Then when it burst upon the national scene in 2016 as fundamentally national issues, I did have some of those same people who put their arms around me back then sheepishly admit that maybe those were important issues people cared about. So, I think - I think it is so important to - if you have a vision, go for it with everything you have, don’t hold yourself back. Let the world create the obstacles - don’t create your own obstacles. 

[Applause] 

And then the last point I mentioned about conventional wisdom - and I do think this correlates to the other points. So, we are poisoned by conventional wisdom, and that’s taken so many forms. Chirlane has spoken very movingly, and there’s been no greater influence on my life than Chirlane McCray. And she talked about - and if you know something about her, you know immediately, she is intelligent, and accomplished, and beautiful in every way - and those realities were evident when she was in high school. But in high school - and this is in Massachusetts, just to affirm the up-south reality - she had teachers in the her high school who literally told the principal they didn’t want her in the class because she was the only black child in the school. 

Reverend Walrond: Wow.

Mayor: They literally wouldn’t teach her. This is in the 1960s and 70s in Massachusetts. But that made her no less beautiful, no less intelligent, no less accomplished. In fact, she fought to get that changed. She fought to have a black studies curriculum in her white high school in Massachusetts - that’s audacity. 

[Applause]

So, I say that to say - imagine - it opened my eyes. I knew it in so many ways politically and philosophically, but I’ve heard it so humanly from my wife that helped me realize there is this poisonous conventional wisdom all around us, in every way. Sometimes it’s about who’s going to win an election. Sometimes it’s about what you can say or can’t say publicly. It takes many forms, but, generally speaking, you should reject that limiting wisdom - that we’re told where the boundaries are. Who is to define the boundaries for us? We have to define our own. And I admit to you, I struggle with it, because, you know, I came up with all sorts of assumptions. Like all of us, we’re all taught things whether we can identify them or not. So, we had an interesting discussion the other say as Donald Trump was continuing - you know, he was working off his checklist. He had denigrated and put down Mexican-Americans, worked his way to Muslim-Americans - obviously women throughout - they’re the majority, so he had to make sure to denigrate them. But then he had not yet addressed the issue of the KKK. So, when it came to him - and that was one of the most telling moments of 2016 - they said, will you renounce the KKK? And he hesitates to think about it. So, I was asked what I make of that, and, I said, it’s pretty clear, he’s a racist, because you don’t -

[Applause]

Because any of those other things - if you’re anti-Muslim, if you’re anti-Mexican-American, or Latino - that’s racism, obviously, but if you can’t truly, automatically, condemn white supremacism and the KKK - step right up, you’re a racist. 

[Applause]

But again, I think there’s an understandable set of boundaries in our society that - again, real or imagined, appropriate or inappropriate - and we’ve got to examine them. And, again, so much good is happening in 2015, in 2016, because people are saying things that need to be said, and were somehow off limits. So, things like that - we should just say them, and damn the conventional wisdom - sorry - sorry, Pastor. 

[Laughter]

Reverend Walrond: You’re fine, this is a journey.

[Laughter]

Mayor: Okay. Pastor, if there’s a lightning bolt, will you protect me?

Reverend Walrond: I’m going to stay out of that one.

[Laughter]

Mayor: Okay.

Reverend Walrond: Listen, thank you for agreeing to be here with us today. I appreciate you. Let’s give it up for the Mayor of New York City, Bill de Blasio.