Transcript: Mayor de Blasio and First Lady Chirlane McCray Appear Live on Hot 97's Ebro in the Morning

March 27, 2019

Ebro Darden: It’s Hot 97. It is Ebro in the Morning – and ladies and gentlemen, Laura Stylez, Rosenberg, and the first family of the city – Mayor de Blasio and Chirlane McCray on the show.

[Applause]

Peter Rosenberg: How are you guys?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: I feel special this morning with that warm applause – 

First Lady McCray: We need to come here more often.

Darden: Well, I mean, listen, you guys always got a warm reception here whether it was just Chirlane coming by or, you know, Mayor de Blasio dodging us for weeks and months because you had some controversy going on.

[Laughter]

Mayor: I never would dodge –

Rosenberg: [Inaudible] out on us for a while.

Mayor: I never would dodge. I come home again and again –

Darden: You did come back – I’m just giving you a hard time.

Mayor: Alright.

Darden: Let’s get right into it. You came this morning because you wanted to ask the listeners something.

Mayor: Yeah –

Darden: It says here in the notes you want them to call the legislators about congestion pricing and get active on this.

Mayor: Fix the subways. Look at this. How’s that for a message. Fix the subways. This is what we need people to focus on right now. So, April 1st – Monday is going to be the decisive moment for the future of our subways and if people think the subways right now are not working for them, if they’re sick of the delays and sick of being late to work, late to their job interviews, late to pick up their kids – you actually have a chance to do something about it. In Albany on Monday, they’re going to take a vote. If the vote goes the right way, tens of billions of dollars to fix the subway, get to the root cause of all the hassles that people are going through. If they don’t vote on Monday, we lose our best chance for a long, long time.

Darden: Now what happened to make Monday the day where this vote – because we’ve been hearing about fixing the subway for how long now? You blaming the Governor, the Governor is blaming you. We know that it’s a State issue, etcetera, etcetera. How did we get to Monday being this –

Mayor: Well, first of all, Ebro, there’s peace in the land. The Governor and I came to an agreement on a plan. It involves congestion pricing, it involves getting revenue from the real estate world. That certainly has some more revenue to give to the people. And it’s a chance to finally get it right. But why April 1st – because that’s when the State budget is decided for the entire year. And when the State budget is decided, the legislators tend to need to make decisions. It’s the number one moment for the whole year for them. They tend to deal with more difficult matters at that moment in a way they never, ever would otherwise.

But here’s the missing link. We need the public’s voice to be really intense here. So, I am saying to all of your listeners and anyone watching on the video this simple thing everyone can do – text the word DELAY, D-E-L-A-Y to 5-2-8-8-6. Again text the word DELAY to 5-2-8-8-6. If you need more information go on the Rider’s Alliance website, ridersny.org. This is the number one advocacy group fighting for straphangers and we are working with them because we want the legislators to feel the voice of the people. People want this fixed.

Rosenberg: Can you break down exactly what congestion pricing is going to mean?

Mayor: Absolutely. So congestion pricing – and I want to start by saying full disclosure, I am someone who for a long time as a Brooklynite, I say, wait a minute I’m not comfortable with the congestion pricing idea the way it was. But the idea has changed fundamentally. Now congestion pricing means if you go into Manhattan below 61st Street with a car, you pay an additional fee to do that. You do not pay to go over the Brooklyn Bridge for example, that continues to be free –

Rosenberg: How much would that toll be to go – if you’re coming down the Henry Hudson down the West Side Highway and you go past 61st Street, it’ll like an EZ-Pass –

Mayor: We’re working it out now and it has not been fully determined – is the Henry Hudson side of the equation. I’ll give you the FDR because that has been determined. If you’re on the FDR and you’re not going into Manhattan below 61st Street, just driving on by, no additional charge. If you come through, for example, the Battery Tunnel, it will discount whatever you pay in that toll from whatever else you would have to pay to go into the Central Business District.

But the point is to tell people look, we’re discouraging people from bringing their cars into place that’s already ridiculously congested. But if you’re going to do it, you’re going to have to pay something extra. That money will go to the subways – to fix the subways.

Rosenberg: So, how much would that be for someone who is commuting from up north coming down the FDR and they want to go to Midtown – how much do they pay?

Mayor: That is to be determined. It will be substantial but still a livable –

Darden: $15.00?

Mayor: Some people are saying that. I think –

Darden: Because that’s what the Holland Tunnel is –

Laura Stylez: It’s a lot – it’s a lot.

Mayor: It is being discussed. It hasn’t been determined, the final number. But I’ll tell you this. It’s going to allow – this plan, again, tens of billions to fix the subways. It’s the first time we would ever have a reliable funding source for the subway. The subway is the heart and soul of New York City, right. Six million riders a day – this talk about the majority of all of us who depend on the subway, we got to get it right. So, this is why I need – really need people to weigh in. This vote on Monday. We need to get it right.

And the congestion pricing – I think it will be made fair. There’s going to be lockbox to keep the money in, the money is dedicated to the city and the subways – it will be dedicated to them. There will be money for outer-borough transit deserts. There’s a lot of parts of the outer-boroughs that need a lot more mass transit. There will be money to fund that. There’s a lot in this plan that I think will help us address things that went missed for years and years.

Rosenberg: Don’t you think – I’m sorry Laura, I just want to say one more about that specifically. I see [inaudible] over there groaning because [inaudible] is someone who, God knows being a producer at Hot 97 doesn’t make enough money but who does drive in Manhattan from Uptown to Downtown. So, there are people who are driving from Uptown to Downtown in Manhattan who are not that well-to-do –

Mayor: Sure.

Darden: At least twice a day.

Rosenberg: Now, is there any –

Darden: And the trains don’t start early – for someone like [inaudible] –

Rosenberg: The trains are so difficult so early. Is there any world in which if you’re a resident, you know what I’m saying, who needs to be around here that you’re not paying that toll every day and you’re discouraging people who are coming from 40 miles north –

Stylez: Or like at a certain time, you know what I mean, when it’s like – when it’s super busy because someone like [inaudible] or me, I used to have to drive into the city because I’m not taking the train at 4:30 am in the morning –

Darden: It’s not safe –

Stylez: Because I don’t feel safe.

Mayor: Yeah, I respect that. And so, look, one, they’re going to talk about – the legislators have to make the final decision on how this is going to go. They’re going to talk about some valid exceptions but we have to be careful. There can’t be so many valid exceptions that then we lose the whole concept of the plan which is to discourage use of cars and most importantly to fund the subways. We got to get it right.

Let me just bring in something that is about our survival – global warming, we all know it’s literally killing us. There’s another piece to this equation. If we don’t fix mass transit and make it really, really easy for people to use mass transit and get out of their cars, we are screwed. Let’s be clear. So, there’s a bigger play here.

A lot of New Yorkers are not going to the subway because it’s so unreliable. But if it was actually fixed and made modern – I agree that there are some exceptions, for sure, but in the core of it, if New Yorkers knew they could really use mass transit and really rely on it you’d have a huge number of people out of their cars. That’s also crucial for the environment. We got to do that all over the world.

Rosenberg: How long are going to go without getting another fare hike if we do this because my hope is that if at least if you’re charging the people driving we’re not going to see another fare hike on the subways –

Mayor: I think if this plan passes, the only fare hikes will be to adjust for inflation not anything bigger than that. So, I think the best defense for straphangers and people having trouble making ends meet is actually to pass this plan so the subways are paid for in a bigger way rather than just always having to turn to the straphangers.

Darden: Now, getting this done means vote on Monday and then what – let’s say this passes. How fast does the work begin?

Mayor: It begins immediately. It’s going to take until the end of next year to set up all of the infrastructure so congestion pricing can happen.

Darden: Okay, so that’s 12 months.

Mayor: Well, no – more. The end of next year. So, it’s going to be – really, you’ll start to see it in action at the end of 2020, beginning of 2021. But there’s other pieces to this plan that will start funding the funding the subway more quickly including those additional taxes on the real estate industry which I think make a lot of sense. So, this is some right-now money. Also, it’s going to allow the subway system to finally know where their money is coming from so they can make the big plans. There are things – this is a 100-year-old subway system – plus. There’s things that should have been done ages ago. Now they’re going to have the money to actually do the things to fix it from the beginning.

I want to remind people let your State Assemblymember, your State Senator know you feel urgency, you want to see this plan passed. And again you can text the work DELAY to 5-2-8-8-6. That will connect you automatically to the people representing you in Albany. You can let them know what you feel.

Darden: Now, we have your wife here – the First Lady, Ms. McCray. How are you, Chirlane?

First Lady McCray: Doing well.

Darden: You – recently they put on the hot seat.

First Lady McCray: Yes, they did.

Darden: $250 million a year initiative has supposedly only helped under 1,000 people. We launched it here on this show. ThriveNYC – we found ourselves bragging about being a major city in America that actually is being assertive and progressive-minded with dealing with mental health issues –

First Lady McCray: That’s right.

Darden: So, we see these headlines. We’re seeing you in the media. What’s the truth here and what’s the false?

First Lady McCray: You know, the truth is haters gonna hate.

[Laughter]

That’s all that’s about. You know – Thrive is thriving. We’ve reached more than 775,000 people with direct services. We’ve received 500,000 calls, texts, chats to NYC Well. You know our number that anyone can call and get help from a trained counselor –

Mayor: What is that number, Chirlane?

First Lady McCray: That number is 1-8-8-8-NYC-WELL. It’s free, people can call and get somebody to speak their language and make an appointment, get a follow-up call. It’s working. We’re getting more calls than ever before –

Darden: So, why –

First Lady McCray: Let me just add – and the Divine Nine have stepped up and have trained more than 20,000 of their friends, family, neighbors in mental health first aid. Stylez you took it, didn’t you?

Stylez: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you’ve been here a number of times and we’ve continued to push it and every times we had a conversation, you told me how more people are calling, more people are signing up.

First Lady McCray: We trained 100,000 – more than 100,000 people – so far mental health first aid which means they are able to help their own family members and friends. And 80 percent of them report that they have used their skills to help someone. That’s amazing.

Darden: So why – why the negativity? I don’t understand. If these are the numbers, these are the facts, why is this saying otherwise?

Stylez: Where did they get that number?

First Lady McCray: I think you got to ask them. I – you know – I just think it’s the haters. Haters want to hate, because what Thrive is doing is very important work. So many people have been reached, there are 1.7 million New Yorkers with a diagnosable mental health condition in this city. No one has stepped up to actually do something, to fill in the gaps with these – New York has had many services, but there’s so many gaps – most people didn’t know how to access them. Thrive has stepped up to make sure people know how to connect to these services, people are clearly being reached, we have – we have statistics, we have surveys, and yet, we still get –

Darden: So some rich person who runs some non-profit mental health organization probably didn’t get the funding that they wanted and they started an initiative to tear this down?

Mayor: Can I – wait a minute –

Rosenberg: And people are probably hating on her husband too. Let’s be honest - because no one can like dislike Chirlane. It has to be – it has to be him.

Mayor: It has to be me.

[Inaudible]

Stylez: Guilty by association.

Mayor: Can I just say this is – this is the thing that really pisses me.

Rosenberg: Oh, here we go.

Mayor: And thank you for noting – this is one the places right here, Hot 97, where the conversation began in this city because all of you had the foresight to say this is on everyone’s mind. It’s 20 percent of New Yorkers afflicted – 20 percent of Americans afflicted by a mental health challenge, that basically means every family –

First Lady McCray: That’s right.

Mayor: But it was the biggest, undiscussed elephant in the room we’ve ever seen, and I want to say about our First Lady, she had the audacity and the strength to say we’re going headfirst at this issue because – here’s your quiz for the day. Is there a national mental health strategy for the United States of America?

Rosenberg: No.

Mayor: No. Is there a strategy for New York State? No. Biggest city in the country, she’s the one that said we’re actually going to come up with a strategy. We’re actually going to break through here and do something different and I’m shocked that people don’t begin at the beginning and say, okay, wait a minute, that’s the most important thing here.

Rosenberg: Right, yeah, I mean it has to be your fault.

[Laughter]

Darden: It’s basically – what you confirmed it’s what Rosenberg put it.

Rosenberg: They want to attack you, so they go at her which isn’t right. This is an awesome program.

Mayor: Sorry honey.

[Laughter]

Darden: Let’s get to our racist schools and our segregated schools.

Mayor: Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait – I’m not going to accept that one in face value.

Darden: Well I mean – you’ve, yourself out of your mouth, said that we have – as New York City – the most segregated public school system in the country.

Mayor: I said something different, but we have – we clearly have an issue with segregation we have to address here and pretty much every other school system in America. Let’s be clear. That’s why I’m a little – I just want to say I say with absolute respect – I think sometimes people are putting a lot of superlatives on New York. This is a problem everywhere. Now, those specialized high schools, were we saw Stuyvesant seven African-American students admitted -

Darden:  Yeah.

Mayor: That’s just to me, that’s not even close.

Darden: But also too, here’s the other thing that really irritates me is as “progressive” and I’m using quote fingers as we claim to be as a City and a State, as liberal in all of these things, it’s embarrassing that we’re even in the conversation. I think that’s why people add the superlative because –

Rosenberg: Right, because there’ no surprise.

Darden: We shouldn’t be in the conversation –

First Lady McCray: Amen.

Darden: For having a segregated school system based on class, based on zoning, based on –

Rosenberg: Race, language –

Darden: Any of these – anything.

Mayor: You are a 100 percent right if you say we should not have a segregated society. So this is where I really like to put things a little perspective. 400 years of American history is what we’re dealing with right now.

Darden: Okay.

Mayor: Institutional racism and you’re right, income inequality and class divide, that’s right there with it. We cannot separate the issues of economic class and race in this equation because income inequality and institutional racism go hand in hand. So all I want to say to you is, if you really want to breakdown segregation in schools then we have to go to the root causes in terms of segregation in employment, segregation in housing, the lack of equality in income, all of these things are the beginning. We’ve got communities in New York City that lend themselves well to more diversified, integrated schools, and we’re actually – finally – making some real progress on that and getting a lot of buy in at the community level. But we’ve got communities that bluntly lean very heavily to one side of the demographic spectrum or the other. That has to do with all those underlying factors. The schools didn’t create that problem and we can’t ask the schools to fix all that problem, we have to do actual, fundamental economic –

Darden: The community has to fix it. The people have to fix it.

Mayor: Well – and – no, the society more broadly. We have government policies that help the one percent constantly, for decades and decades, the money has been concentrated in the hands of the one percent. And the thing I talk about everywhere I go, I say there is plenty of money in the world, there’s plenty of money in this country, it’s just in the wrong hands. We’ve got to be blunt about this. It’s been as systematic effort to take money from working people, give it to the one percent, and it’s happened right out in plain view. If you don’t reverse that, then don’t expect integrated schools. 

Darden: When you – you got blowback from schools on the Upper West Side and places you were like, listen, we’re reserving seats in some of these amazing schools, these are public schools, and we’re going to make sure that people from different communities get into these schools, because you recognize the problem? Yes?

Mayor: Yes.

Darden: And how has that gone?

Rosenberg: And real quick just to Ebro’s point he was making earlier, about New York, and I live on the Upper West Side exactly in the school district where people are talking about. What makes it so disappointing is that if you were to talk to those people, 90 percent of the people in my neighborhood would claim to be progressive liberals –

Stylez: Right, right.

Rosenberg: But when the time came for people of color to come sit in the schools with their kids, all of the sudden where’d the progressive attitude go?

Mayor: Guess who’s coming to dinner.

Stylez: And Chancellor –

Rosenberg: Yeah, exactly in 2019.

Stylez: We had Chancellor Carranza in here and we had a great discussion on it because he feels just as strong as we did. Because – listen – I know Ebro is like it shouldn’t surprise you but it’s still – like when I saw all the numbers from all those high schools come in, I’m like it’s insane.

Mayor: It is insane. The high school thing – look – that one piece, there’s many pieces to fix, that piece is crazy because it just screams, it screams broken system, right? It is something that has to, can be fixed. But on this West Side example, it’s very powerful, and this is why I’m hopeful. That was about people. That was about grassroots people who said, we’re going to fight this battle, we want our classrooms to be diverse, we want to bring kids from different parts of the community in. And the fact that it had a real constituency in the community helped us to get it done and you’re right, a lot of people were like, oh wait a minute, what is this going to my child – we, very valid concern by the way. We said, look, we’re going to create something that works for everyone. Every child will benefit from being around the experience of the other child but we can also show you that this is going to be a quality education for everyone. That’s a healthy conversation. So I actually think what’s happening here will ultimately lead us to a good place, but what we should not do is forget to engage community members and actually get as much buy in as possible for these changes. That’s how you’re getting a lasting change.

Darden: It says here that there is a plastic bag ban or tax coming to the State of New York. Do you know anything about this? Are you up on this?

Mayor: I am up on this. I – we need a plastic bag ban.

Darden: Tell me - tell us more.

Mayor: The bottom line is, and it gets back to the global warming point, we are – we have a society that keeps making things out of plastic which means we are using fossil fuels, which means we’re killing the Earth.

Darden: Well because I know in my family’s those plastic bags they come in handy because we stash them under the kitchen sink. And they get used for everything, they get used for snacks, they get used for wet pool clothes or if any accidents happen, these plastic bags are very multi-use, so you’re taking something away from my home.

Rosenberg: You can still use them, but you’re going to have to pay a tax.

Darden: He said a ban –

[Inaudible]

First Lady McCray: He’s doing the right thing. He’s reusing them and we want people to re-use what they already have. We just don’t want to make more of them.

Darden: I’m just saying in the hood – yo – de Blasio in the hood, the plastic bag you get from the store goes either in a drawer or under the sink or in another larger bag. And these bags are very – leftovers after a party, the bag, right? I mean, you’re trashcan liner, these bags. I’m just letting you know.

Mayor: Chirlane, there is – I think there is a mental health condition of obsession of plastic bags. I think Ebro is suffering.

[Laughing]

First Lady McCray: No, I’m feeling you Ebro. I’m feeling you.

[Inaudible]

Rosenberg: Alright, so what is – how is it going to work?

Mayor: Ebro if you call this number, we can work with you on this plastic bag issue. Listen, first of all, we do the exact same thing in our household. I just was – I went to Washington D.C. the other day and I was grabbing for the plastic bags to put stuff in so—

Darden: That’s right!

Mayor: —we do it all the time, and with kids, I hear you. But that’s – let’s get to the essential point here: the plastic straws, the plastic bags, the Styrofoam, which we are now banning thank God, and we fought hard in this city. I was one of the people who started that movement to stop the use of Styrofoam, also made—

Stylez: I’m for that, right.

Mayor: —from fossil fuel. We’ve got to kick the habit because what we’re doing here is basically speeding up our own destruction. So, what we need to give people, and I believe in this is reusable bags, that I would think subsidizing that for folks who need it is a much better play than constantly producing more and more fossil-fuel based plastic and then burying it in the ground, it doesn’t biodegrade, it’s just there forever. So where on this cycle we’ve got to break out of, and there’s a lot of energy. Also, you know, the oceans are being filled with plastic – it’s killing the marine life. I mean this is when you start to destroy the ecology of the Earth, so I’ll say something that just will unite us with history: if Marvin Gaye were here—

Rosenberg: Yeah, he would say.

Mayor: —he would say—

First Lady McCray: Mercy, mercy, me.

Mayor: —no more plastic bags.

[Laughter]

Yes, he would say mercy, mercy me too.

Darden: I was going to say sexual healing and then that’s a different process.

Rosenberg: That’s for a different conversation.

Mayor: Before ecology, he was one of the trailblazers in the cultural community in talking about environmentalism. And so the point is that was 1970. We still haven’t fixed this problem. We’re still addicted to petroleum products. We have got to stop.

Rosenberg: But not only that we have a problem that we are dealing with people on the other side of the aisle who make this a political issue. AOC was just fighting about this yesterday. The environment should be a political issue—

Darden: Science shouldn’t be a political.

Rosenberg: —our world is literally – Mayor, I don’t know – do you ever have conversations about the parts of New York City that potentially over the next 10 to 20, 30 years could be underwater?

Mayor: We just made an announcement a couple of weeks ago. Lower Manhattan, hundreds of thousands of people work or live there, one tenth of all our jobs are there, 75 percent of our subway lines are there, if we don’t act soon, by the end of this century it will be underwater a lot of the time. That is a fact. We’re going to build up a barrier – we’re going to extend the land out into the river to protect Lower Manhattan.

Darden: That’s happening?

Mayor: We’re going to do that, that’s what we announced a few weeks ago.

Darden: I heard about that but I was like yo, what movie is this?

Mayor: No, it has to happen, I mean we have to get real about the fact that that’s how bad it is, that right now if we continue on this course, not only in New York City, in Miami, all sorts of cities along – New Orleans, all sorts of places in this country are threatened. Again, there’s no national plan to stop that, we have to do it ourselves for now.

Rosenberg: It shows no one cares about their grandchildren – they only care about themselves right now—

Darden: Oh and their bank account.

Rosenberg: —and their bank account, no one worries about what’s going to happen—

Mayor: Green New Deal people, Green New Deal.

Rosenberg: I know, it’s the craziest thing—

Darden: Before we lose you, Amazon. The deal went belly-up.

Mayor: Chirlane, I’d like you to speak to this.

[Laughter]

Darden: Wait, I mean, I saw you and Cuomo come together.

Mayor: Yes.

Darden: There was tax breaks given but there was also tax money going to be made, there was jobs, there was a school going to get built, a neighborhood was going to benefit, local business was going to benefit—

Mayor: Public housing, biggest public housing development in North America, a few blocks away.

Darden: —and then there was several people you guys did not invite to the meeting, and they were pissed, and they turned this thing upside down. And then Amazon said you know what, not doing it. Where are we at today?

Mayor: Look, Amazon – let’s be very clear, talk about the one percent here. Amazon is one of the biggest, most powerful companies in the world, and they acted like it. We had a deal. We made this deal out in the open they announced it with us and then they just took their ball and went home, they confirmed everyone’s worst fears about them, and this is the whole problem. Here’s what I think we should do going forward. We need a national law banning this subsidy fight, city versus city, state versus state.

Darden: I don’t even know what that means.

Mayor: It means right now that Amazon announced their competition, they did it that way, other companies have done it other ways, but basically they try and set one locality against another. Bid for us – give us the tax breaks, whatever. And I, look, if you’re running someplace and someone’s got 25,000 jobs, and billions of dollars in tax revenue to offer you, you’re not going look away from that, you’re not going to say, oh, see you. You’re going to try to win it for your people, but it creates effectively a trap for everyone. I think we should pass national legislation that says here are the limits on anything that can be offered a company in these bidding wars between cities and states, because it’s a trap that we have to stop. The only way to stop it is with a national policy.

Darden: So why – but why did they leave, why did they bounce on the deal?

Mayor: You have got to ask them because it makes no sense in the world to me. If you had announced something, and this is the – they’ve said they want talent? This is where the most talent on Earth is right now, technology and otherwise. So you tell me? You announce something, in a great location, tons of talent, and then you get – because a few people complained? I mean did they think weren’t going to complain, who – I would fire the research department if they thought the people were going to be like—

Darden: I’ve been telling you this for years, and I’m going to tell it to you again: I firmly believe a lot of the, I guess, negative energy towards you, as a mayor, right, is because you are very progressive minded, I’ve seen people call you hippie-dippie, you’re this hippie mayor, you know, all of these things—

Mayor: Those are the nice people.

Darden: Those are the nice people.

[Laughter]

You know, I’m a conspiracy theorist – if – have they announced a new place where this new Amazon thing is going, have they picked another city?

Mayor: No, no.

First Lady McCray: I don’t think so.

Darden: I bet you they’re waiting until he’s not mayor anymore to make it look like it was your fault.

Mayor: Well that’s an interesting theory, Ebro. I would have listened to you even more deeply before the plastic bag incident, but—

[Laughter]

Rosenberg: —you don’t think they’ll wait two years though?

Mayor: Yeah, no – look, I think they have a hell of a lot of power, they made an incredibly arbitrary decision, they showed no regard for the people who are hurt by it, and this is the problem with corporate America, this is why we need new laws to reign in corporate America. They had a chance here, they could have been the good guys, they could have done something good for Queens, they could have done something for the community, and they just walked away. So I can’t get inside their minds and I think it’s the strangest thing I’ve ever seen.

Rosenberg: And this was one place where you and our girl AOC did not agree.

Mayor: And that’s fine, and I respect her a lot, and you know, you could be very respectful of your fellow progressives and disagree on something. Actually, if you look at the polling, a vast majority of working class people and people of color wanted the jobs, and also the massive revenue which we would have put into affordable housing, we would’ve put into improving our schools, that revenue would have helped us.

Darden: Well, even the housing community over there – a lot of people were saying that the housing community wasn’t involved. They’ve been – they were involved from the beginning.

Mayor: That’s right. There was a huge amount of support, small businesses wanted it – a lot of the public housing residents came out and rallied because they knew it would be jobs for their community. And by the way, half the jobs in tech nowadays do not require a four-year college degree. Half of them. You can go out of high school, you can go out of a two-year associates degree and still get a good job and a good career. So, you know, one thing – progressives have to be about real people’s lives and we should fight for fundamental change but we also have to make sure people have jobs and good paying jobs. We have to make sure there’s money to pay for the things that create a more fair and just society. So, I think some of my fellow progressives missed the boat on that. But that, bottom-line, still is the original sin is who made the decision? Amazon made the decision to just pull up and run away.

Darden: That’s why we’re for Apple.

[Laughter]

Are you running for president?

Mayor: Well, that’s a decision that I would just say at this point I have not ruled out, and it’s a big family decision, that’s something Chirlane and I have to talk about and we have to make that decision sooner rather than later.

Rosenberg: Is there an option that you would do it – is the only option in your eyes to run for president in 2020?

Mayor: Look, I’m not trying to theorize too much about different scenarios. I think there’s a right now opportunity issue right in front of me, and Chirlane and I have been talking about – we’ve been traveling. We went to New Hampshire. Her, by the way, fun fact, Chirlane’s mom, Catherine, born and raised in New Hampshire—

Darden: Okay.

Mayor: —which was something that surprised a lot of the folks that we talked to there. But, we went to New Hampshire, we went to South Carolina together, very positive reception. I was out in Iowa—

Rosenberg: So you’re campaigning already? You’re running for president?

Mayor: Not campaigning – it’s talking to people, and listening to people, people are hungry for progressive change. This is the one thing I found, when I talk to people all over the country and I say the money’s in the wrong hands, I’m telling you, every kind of audience, Chirlane is my witness, every kind of different audience responds to that because that’s the truth they see. They see massive unfairness and inequality and they got – they know we’ve got to break the status quo and so to me what’s powerful about this national discussion is, let’s start with this: this is not going to work, what we’re doing right now. [Inaudible] it’s not going to work. We need something fundamentally different and that’s a conversation are getting involved in, whatever decision we make.

Rosenberg: I’ll tell you one thing about Mayor de Blasio. I don’t know how he’d fare in this field, it’s a crowded field with talented people in it, right, and some people are very beloved. But the one quality that I keep bringing up is if you can’t adlib and talk, you are going to lose three debates to Donald Trump. No matter what we say about him, no matter how dumb everyone says he is, the man does two hour standup shows by himself. And I like Mayor de Blasio’s ability to be able to stand and riff with anyone off the top of the head.

Darden: Well he got better because of Ebro in the Morning, and I already said that—

Rosenberg: Yo, that’s a great point.

Darden: Because when you first became Mayor he was rough, he was scared, we used to have him on the phone, he was—

Mayor: Wow.

Rosenberg: Now, look at him.

Mayor: You know, I was having this really nice moment with Rosenberg, I was feeling affirmed, and then you made it all about you, Ebro.

Rosenberg: And you just ruined it. Welcome to my life.

[Laughter]

Mayor: That is a narcissistic tendency. Now if you call for help, help is for free.

First Lady McCray: 1-888-NYC-WELL.

Rosenberg: Well done, well done.

Darden: Give it up for Mayor de Blasio and the First Lady Chirlane McCray.

[Applause]

Mayor: Thank you.

Darden: Keep going, Mayor, keep going.

Mayor: Yes, sir.