Transcript: Mayor de Blasio Appears live on MSNBC's Am Joy

March 14, 2020

Joy Reid: And joining me now is New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio who's here, and I feel like we're not sitting far enough apart, even though it is great to see you.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: We'll make it work.

Reid: Yeah, we're going to try and make it work. So, the testing thing I think is really – and you know, maybe I'm a bit obsessed with it because at this point it seems insane in a modern country, in a great city like New York City, that it seems almost impossible for people to get a test. Can a New Yorker or someone in this city that is symptomatic in some way get a test if they need it? And, if so, how?

Mayor: Joy, there are people who can get tested. It is according to a priority structure and there’s not enough testing. It's just as simple as that. We have been pleading with the federal government for weeks, publicly, letters, phone calls, get us testing so we can get ahead of this. Here's the reality, this is a war like situation. We're in a war time scenario with a Mar-a-Lago attitude being used by the federal government, right? It's so laid back and I don't understand it. And by the way, testing – how about ventilators? Where is the federal government making sure that our hospitals have the ventilators we're going to need? Where's the federal government when it comes to surgical masks, getting them distributed where they – this is a case for a nationalization, literally a nationalization of crucial factories and industries that could produce the medical supplies to prepare this country for what we need. Hand sanitizer – there are people going crazy, I don't blame them, trying to get a hand sanitizer.

Reid: Is it true, having hand sanitizer now made in New York, or –

Mayor: The State has found a way to make it and that's great. But the point I'm saying is the federal government should recognize this as literally a crucial part of stopping this. There should be a national approach to ensuring max – every factory that can make hand sanitizer. It should be on a 24/7 shifts and the distribution should go to the places that need it most, but we're not even into discussion now because we can't even get the testing until – it’s backwards.

Reid: And people are being left to their own devices to run out and stock up on toilet paper, which is irrelevant to try and prevent the outbreak. I want to play Joseph Fair. He was on last night with me – a brilliant guy – he's a virologist who has dealt with Ebola and lots of other crises on the African continent and elsewhere. And this is a question I've been obsessing about. I asked it to him. Let me let you listen to his answer:

Reid: Can we just get the WHO tests? Couldn't the U.S. or, you know, a few billionaires just buy the WHO test?

Dr. Joseph Fair: Absolutely. I mean it would be engaging the company that makes the, the gold standard test, which in this case is Qiagen based out of Germany, but also has very large offices here in the United States. If we had engaged them very early on, paid them to up ramp their production. We're already at a lot of production, but if we had paid them to do more.

Reid: Now, I know that the City of New York is using a test and it's a test that tests for lots of different things, right? It's a test. It's sort of a one-off test for lots of –

Mayor: Just two things going on. Doctors in general have a test called BioFire, which you can go to a doctor's office and get – that's to rule out a whole host of more typical diseases. Once you know that you have one of those, I think there's 26 diseases, then you don't have coronavirus. That's great. That could happen right now, but once you are found to be negative for those others, then proceed to the coronavirus test.

Reid: And so, do we – does New York have the Qiagen test?

Mayor: We don't have that one to the best of my knowledge. Look, we have some testing capacity, but nowhere near what we need. Right now. if the federal government would simply – the FDA could approve automated testing by every private laboratory with the testing we have right now, it would speed up the process immensely. It would allow us to do thousands of tests a day, get results the same day in many cases. Right now, that could be doing that. On top of that, we should be going for all the additional tests overseas –

Reid: My question would be, I mean this is a rich city, couldn't New York just simply buy the Qiagen test. I mean, this is the test. It is the gold standard. It's being used all over the continent of Africa. It's being used in Asia. It's being used in Europe. Every other country is using it. It's a rapid test. Joseph Fair walked me through this whole thing. It's quick. It tests directly for this this virus, for COVID-19. It's accurate. It's being used everywhere. Why doesn't New York just buy it?

Mayor: If it's legal according to federal law and we can do it, we'll do it. I mean, literally, I'll do anything at this point, because, you know, as you said, about the million tests we were supposed to get, it's impossible to believe the federal government at this point. I'm saying this with sorrow, Joy. We have been calling and begging for help. I can't imagine any other moment in American history where we are in the middle of the pandemic and cities and states were pleading with the federal government to send help, and there's not even that wartime footing. There's not even the beginning of an urgency and a strategic focus from Washington. It's almost like you're used to the fact they'll let you down at this point. So, we are going to take matters into our own hands in any way we can.

Reid: Let's talk about schools. New York City is unique among a lot of cities and a lot of states around the country that are not closing. Why not close the schools? The argument to close them is that it would protect those young people, the kids and the teachers and the maintenance workers and everyone from community transmission. And that there are ways that you could set up feeding, making sure people get food, making sure kids get lunch. Why keep the schools open?

Mayor: Okay, first, I don't believe we're unique. I think a lot of cities and states are grappling this right now because here's the problem. First of all, we are worried about a cascading effect where if we close schools, watch out what happens with mass transit? How do you keep your hospital system and your health care going? These all interrelate. You're not going to have a functioning health care system if the folks in the medical field, the doctors, the nurses, the techs, everyone has to stay home with their kids. You're not going to have a functioning medical system if no one can get to work. So, we have these three pillars, schools, mass transit and health care system. We're trying to hold a line with that. It does not rule out at some point we feel we have to close schools, but right now we think that has to be held together.

The other part of the equation, Joy, what are these kids going to do? I guarantee you if we close or closing for a long, long time, do we really believe these children are going to stay holed up in their room for a month, two months, three months? No. They're going to go out into their neighborhoods. They're going to gather together in groups. What are families going to do? They're going to go see their neighbors, they are going to go see their friends, and we've recreated those social networks and the spread again. In a school, a child is supervised and safe. Here's a number that should be sobering – there's over 400,000 teenagers in New York City's public schools, do you want 400,000 teenagers to just home without adult supervision? Think about all those dominoes that might fall in that case. So, we have to strike a balance right now.

Reid: Yeah. We’re just getting this news in my ear right now. My executive producer just got in my ear, we just got reports at the first New York City resident has died, an 82-year-old woman has died in New York City of COVID-19.

Mayor: We've been very, very worried about her. She had, to the best of my memory, preexisting conditions, obviously advanced age. I was hearing the same news just before coming on, we wanted to confirm it. Joy, it's tragic. We are going to lose some people here and there were some, I am certain, that could have been saved if the testing were here from the beginning.

Reid: But here's the thing, New York City is also the most accessible city in the world in terms of mass transit. You can actually get all the way from way deep in Brooklyn all the way to way out in Queens and in between. Can that transit system stay open? This woman, we don't know who she's traveled near, we don't know if her family members get to meet to visit her by train, by bus. We have a problem here and the community transmission would seem to be quite easy in New York.

Mayor: Yeah, but let's not – let's demystify for a moment. The World Health Organization just came out with yet another report – 65,000 cases in China that they tested – they studied, I should say, and this is not an airborne disease. So, you can be on the subway with someone, that's not the problem. The problem is the close contact, the transmission of fluids between people. That's what we know. Now, what we've got to be clear about is, right now, our subway system – and I agree with you, it's extraordinary, but it has emptied out in large measure because of just plain reality. People are telecommuting. We've asked people, and we're doing ourselves as a city to stagger our work hours off rush hour. So, there's a lot fewer people on the subway. There's more distance, that's good. But you take out the subways, you just collapsed your health care system in many ways – that's the blunt truth. And that the thing we have to be honest about this country is, if we don't keep the health care system together, that's when this becomes overwhelming. Those professionals, they have to be at work. They can't be home with their kids. They have to be able to get to work. We have to keep them healthy. So, when the Governor of Maryland spoke earlier, he was talking about that danger up ahead where our last line of defense is our health care system. But we have to be honest about all the things that we need to keep it intact in the meantime.

Reid: What about – I mean, I have a friend who's was texting last night, we were doing this sort of Q & A, and couldn't get his question in, but I think it is a good one. People who are immunocompromised now – people who are living with HIV, who are living with immunocompromising illnesses of all kinds – what should they be doing right now?

Mayor: High level of isolation. So, if you've got – there’s five areas, immunocompromised, cancer, diabetes, serious heart disease, serious lung disease. For folks have one or more of those conditions and are 50, that's overwhelmingly where we're losing people all over the world – that category. Don't go near anyone sick, don't put yourself in a situation where you have to be too close – you don't go on crowded subway car, you don't go to a party where people are going to be close together. You have to be very, very cautious. Bluntly, a grandparent who wants to see the grandchild, not if that grandchild has the sniffles, right? It's real strict rules.

Reid: And we know now, just for the audience out there, the woman who died was 82 years old. Apparently, she had emphysema – advanced emphysema. She went into the hospital March 3rd. So, just to give you some more information, because it is people that already have existing issues that are the most compromised. What about people who – and, you know, I'm just going to cite another person that I know that has a loved one who is right now in care in a care facility for an unrelated illness. It's not an immune – you know, an immunocompromised sort of illness, but is in an illness, but they are now not allowed to visit. So, because I think there are also issues of loneliness, of people being isolated, of, you know, elderly people, or people who are ill, people who are in hospital care who now can't get visitors. What do we do about this?

Mayor: Right. This is a big issue. You know, some of our top health care professionals have pointed this out – the mental health issues here are huge. The fact that if you have a senior who is so isolated, it literally has taken away some of their will to live, it's giving them no opportunity for social interaction, that's dangerous too. So, I think it's [inaudible] conditions – very strict rules. If you've got a senior who's healthy, that doesn't mean they can't have social contact. It means be careful for being around anyone who might be sick in any way.

Reid: Absolutely. We have a hard-out, so I have to go. Mayor Bill de Blasio, I don't want the commercial to just cut you off. Thank you so much, sir.

Mayor: Thank you.

Reid: Really appreciate you being here, Mr. Mayor.

Mayor: Thank you, Joy.