Transcript: Mayor de Blasio Appears Live on Ebro in the Morning on Hot 97

February 7, 2020

Ebro Darden: Give it up for Mayor de Blasio.

[Applause]

How are you, sir?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: I’m feeling good. I’m feeling good.

Darden: Now ladies and gentlemen, I just – or Rosenberg just showed, but we brought up the video that's been circulating social media because you had your State of the City last night.

Mayor: Yup.

Darden: And we got to get into some things you talked about there, which is a lot of what people are frustrated with, with a city in transition, right, from property values and namings of – you know, obviously we've been seeing the renaming of parts of the city. There's a lot of frustration and more recently there has been protests with regard to the extra police and activity and the treatment of individuals on the subways. You just saw the video of – she was probably, what? 17, 16 years old. Maybe the girl who was getting pushed by the officer yesterday.

Laura Stylez: I think more like 15.

Darden: What did you think when you saw that video?

Mayor: I want to speak to that, but just wanted to start where you started. The frustration I'm hearing all over the city, it's really about the identity of New York City.

Darden: That's right.

Mayor: Right. And everyone's going to have their own interpretation. Out of 8.6 million New Yorkers, there'll be 8.6 million, you know, strong views, right? But one thing I think runs through this very consistently is, is this still going to be our city? Is this, you know, a place that New Yorkers can afford to live in, stay in? Are our communities going to be intact? The reason I said yesterday, Save Our City, is because what I've heard all over the city, like every kind of neighborhood, is the fear of displacement, the fear of what makes New York City special slipping away, our humanity, our – the place, you know, that we are that's for everyone. The place that's like an open city.

Darden: Well, for everyone is the diverse culture because as people get displaced, it feels like New York City is just becoming a white metropolis [inaudible] –

Mayor: Well, I would say – I'm going to tell you, I think it is about class before it's about race. I think it’s about economics. The question is are working people of all races going to be able to live here or does it become a place, as you said, only for elites more and more? And that is not just about where you live, it's also about your neighborhood and one of the things that's really, really troubling people is they see those mom-and-pop stores in the neighborhood they love and then suddenly they're gone. And that is about greed in many cases, that's about landlords jacking up the rent instead of working to save a community store.

We just had a thing a few weeks ago in Queens, this bar, Neir’s Tavern, a crucial beloved part of the community, been there 190 years. I am not making this up. Almost 200 years. The landlord jacked up the rent. They were going to go down, they were going to be lost, and I intervened – a bunch of people intervened – to help them. And this is like this beloved part of the community that people feel is kind of the heart and soul. They think about everything in their lives and –

Darden: What is the balance between capitalism and a free market society and a community? What is the responsibility there if an individual wants to make this money on a property they own?

Mayor: I think it's got to change. I think you're hitting the nail on the head. The status quo is unacceptable in this city. And what I talked about yesterday in the speech is we've tried all sorts of things to change it. Some of them have had a real impact, but it's not enough because the situation keeps galloping forward. So what a free enterprise system means right now in New York City is, it is leaving a lot of people behind and creating a dynamic or taking away a lot of the heart and soul of this place. So a landlord should feel that they're part of a city, part of a neighborhood, and not just be thinking about the almighty dollar, but if a store has been around for decades and decades, hey, you have an obligation to work with that small business and keep them there. The same way that, you know, we've heard about this for so long, generations, that people renting an apartment to a veteran, to someone you know who happens to be of limited means, but has been part of the community for a long time – a lot of times you would see community-based landlords give that person a break, you know, try and accommodate them, try and keep them in their own neighborhood.

And we are losing some of that, and more and more it is becoming just about money. So I said yesterday, Save Our City – about our heart and soul, about just the – everything we feel about New York City, everything we believe in about New York City, but underneath all that, Ebro, is a whole lot of economics and we now need to constrain the kinds of things that are hurting us. So I talked about yesterday, for example, a vacancy tax. If a landlord puts out a store owner, puts out a mom-and-pop store, and then they leave that storefront vacant, they should have to pay more in taxes. They should be penalized for that. And the same with renters. Renters still need a hell of a lot more help. So I talked about, for example, a plan to not have to pay security deposits anymore upfront. I talked about the kinds of protections we're going to need for renters who are not right now covered.

There's two million or so New Yorkers who right now have no protections against rent gouging. Their rent could be shot up as much as a landlord wants. There's nothing legally that stops it. No protections against an inappropriate eviction. So, we're going to need more muscular laws. We're going to need to do the kinds of things to rebalance this equation and protect the heart and soul of this place.

Darden: And what I hear you saying is an idealistic – and a view that I love, but I don't believe America and specifically New York City is about that. It's always been about greed. It's always been about money. It's never been about the things you're talking about. I think that those things have been marketing ideas.

Mayor: No, no, no, no. That's not – that –

Darden: I don’t believe it.

Mayor: If you say New York City, since its founding has had this kind of commercial capitalistic thing going on, 100 percent true, but there's another thing that happened over the generations in New York City and that's the heart and soul part. This place became an idea. This place became an example to the world of people being able to have freedom –

Darden: [Inaudible] the thing with marketing. I think we're seeing the truth now and I think that's where a lot of this tension comes from. It’s because people want to believe what you're saying [inaudible] –

Mayor: But I'm not – I'm sorry to interrupt. I don't mean to say your underlying critique doesn't have value because, obviously, what I'm calling for is things to fundamentally change the status quo and constraints –

Darden: And a culture change.

Mayor: Culture change, for sure, and constrain the greed, but I'm only arguing back at you, people overcame a lot of that. The art, the culture, the neighborhoods, the things that people created, the values, which was not about a few rich people, the values of this place that became a compassionate open source.

Darden: That brings us to the MTA.

Mayor: Yes.

Darden: A week ago – was it a week ago? Maybe two weeks, they had the big protest in Grand Central Station, which you have individuals protesting and I believe that there was – you know, pouring paint all over the street and it's like, alright, relax, you can't just be pouring paint all over the street.

Mayor: Can’t be breaking things.

Darden: You can't break things. I get all of those things, but that is frustration. That is people saying what you're talking about, we don't even feel on our trains, like the churro lady getting put in handcuffs or this teenager we're seeing getting pushed an NYPD officer out of a train station and being told, you can't come to the train. Now, if it was that big of a problem, you thought, okay, maybe they gave the girl – the NYPD officer would've just gave the girl a summons if it was that big of a deal. But if it wasn't a big deal and you're trying to cut the girl a break, just swipe her through and let her go get on the train.

Mayor: Look, there's a couple of different things going on. I understand the frustration, but let's start with the protest. Those protests – first of all, it was not a lot of people and we should not treat it as more than it was. What I did not like from the beginning was there was a goal of destroying things. It was literally one of the things they wanted – they said, go break things, mess things up, including the very subway system that we all depend on. Set fires. This is not getting anyone anywhere and I think it's not only counterproductive, these are just people that are not serious about change. Then, on top of that, it was venomous towards police officers who are doing their job.

They're working people, they're doing their job, and it was hateful and negative towards the police. The police, meanwhile – and these are police of all backgrounds, all nations – made sure that the protest was allowed to proceed and within the boundaries of law. So, I would like – folks who want change, don't take your frustrations out on individual police officers and don't break things. If you want to work for change, roll up your sleeves, and work for change. Protest, of course, but then talk about the things that actually might change something. The incidents that you're talking about. I just looked at that video now. I'll be very straightforward – on the one hand, if it began with the young woman not paying her fare. I don't like that. I'm not going to lie about that. I don't like that and I want people to pay their fares and be respectful of an officer if an officer questions you.

On the other hand, our officers more and more are being trained to not escalate, to de-escalate.

Darden: To de-escalate.

Mayor: Something's off in that video, obviously. So, this is – we are in a transition and what I appreciate it very much, I'm not blowing smoke here, I appreciate that you guys have a conversation. It’s sort of an essential conversation about what's happening in the city that I don't see in a whole lot of the places. We're in this moment of transition. It is a painful transition at times. But I'll tell you something. The NYPD dynamic, put aside the individual videos that get us so worked up, I can guarantee you, because I've seen it with my own eyes, the number of officers who have been trained and are living it – de-escalation, not firing their weapon, the restraint they're showing now. It is unbelievable. 2019, it was something like 20 times in the whole city that an officer ever used their weapon in a conflict for a whole year [inaudible] –

Darden: For a city of this size, right.

Mayor: – [inaudible] amazing. So there's something going on. I want to really give credit – the leadership that NYPD decided on a path of reform a long time ago and they're making it real. And so officers are being taught, de-escalate, bring the temperature down, work with community members, get to know community members, neighborhood policing. And then this thing, this thing, Ebro, this is being missed, what's happened in the last few weeks. Dermot Shea, the Police Commissioner, says the NYPD is now going to focus on young people. He didn't say, we're going to go lock up young people. He said, we need to reach young people. And I said in the speech yesterday, I said, young people don't need to be policed, they need to be reached. His point is to take a group of hundreds of NYPD officers, youth coordination officers they are calling it, who are going to work with kids, families, schools.

If a young person's having a problem, they're going to try and figure out how to help them before it becomes something that might lead that kid into the wrong situation. So, it's literally, stop crime before it happens. It very much parallels what we're doing with Cure Violence where community members are stepping in, gang interrupters. This is a whole different approach that is about the people. So, your bigger critique about greed and capitalism and everything else, there's a lot to discuss there. But meanwhile on the ground, something very different is happening. This is the NYPD that ten years ago, was stopping everyone in sight, denigrating young men of color, discriminating against them, that is now saying we need to reach them and work with them and help them on the right path. That is a sea change –

Darden: Now [inaudible] NYPD reaching out. I know we work with Erica Ford and we work with a lot of people in the community who are on the front lines. Excuse me. Are they bringing those people in to help with this process?

Mayor: 100 percent. That's – look, that's another crucial evolution which, you know, you will not see on the front pages because it's been a great success story and it's a human story of people actually finding each other.

Rosenberg: The grassroots organizations and the police working together.

Mayor: A decade ago, the Cure Violence movement was looked at by the NYPD with great suspicion because it was, obviously – I'm going to state the obvious – a lot of folks in Cure Violence had, once upon a time, been gang  members or had troubles with the law. Cure Violence is one of the most powerful movements you ever hope to see because it's neighborhood people saying we are going to stop young people from ending up in violence, we're going to stop retaliation, we are going to put our own bodies on the line. I honored folks from Cure Violence yesterday at my speech and I keep saying, this is one of the difference makers and why crime and violence has gone down so much in this city. The NYPD used to feel very, very uncomfortable.

Now I'll state the obvious – Cure Violence, these are credible messengers so they work not in a direct partnership with the NYPD at all because that's not the nature of the thing. But there is a mutual respect and a mutual understanding. And today in police precincts all over in New York City you have precinct commanders telling their officers these Cure Violence folks are part of the solution and if you come across them, respect who they are and what they mean to the community. I've seen that happening. I've heard it from the Cure Violence folks that they're being asked to address roll calls and explain what their role is in the community, for example. I'm telling you something very big is happening here. When you have a police commissioner say we've got to focus on how to reach young people and support them – support them, treat them with their full value because stop-and-frisk was the devaluing of young men of color. It was literally taking their personhood away. And now you have a police commissioner say, we're wearing our uniform, we have a gun, are badge, but what we actually need to do most is reach and support those young people so they can have positive lives. I mean that's a-whole-nother level.

Darden: It sounds good. And you know, one of my biggest problems with not all police but too many is there is obviously ego and there is this presence that often comes where, you know, a police officer thinks they're doing a young person a favor and not really communicating on their level. And if police officers are really trying to – because, you know, these are large humans with underdeveloped emotional, you know, maturity and you know capacity – a teenager, an 18-year-old, a 19-year-old. I call them kids sometimes only because I know their mind isn't there yet. And they're very emotional. They're going – they're fearful, they're going through transitions in their lives. Maybe they're even unhappy about their – where they come from and the neighborhood they come from, right? So there's a lot there. And that relationship, as you talk about, between a police officer and a young person is very fragile, right? And I think the onus is on the police to make it work. It's not on – and a lot of times the onus is put on the teenager, the young person, the person who is not an adult, the person who was not paid by the City, the person who doesn't have a badge and a gun, right, and the authority to take a life, right. Too often it's put on the society, not the police. We talked about it with regard to the commercials that we saw during the Super Bowl, which alright, it was a great attempt to bring some sort of, you know, upliftment to the families who have been killed by police officers.

But there was no –

Rosenberg: Accountability.

Darden: Accountability in those spots that the NFL ran that were put on the actual police officers who made mistakes, often, while on the job or their training was bad or the policies were bad or whatever it was. That is on the infrastructure, that is on the city, that is on the people with the authority to come down to the level of the pedestrian and make that work. And I'm interested to see if it works.

Mayor: I, look –  I think you're saying something very important and it's not, you know – I think we have to understand, because again, you're going to forgive me that I am optimistic by nature, but it's optimism that's been earned by seeing that change can happen. And I will always say this on this show because this is such a serious, meaningful conversation that happens here. You've got to believe, when you see with your own eyes change, it is an instantaneous confirmation that more change can happen. I – we all fought to stop a broken policy of stop-and-frisk. We beat that policy. Then we were told the sky was going to fall and there'd be crime and chaos. We, for six years now, have reduced crime year after year. So all things are possible in my view, once we break out – and you said culture change, very powerful – when we break out of a broken culture, that culture – NYPD officers, I will say under the previous mayor, and I'll leave it at that, were taught to go out there, stop as many young people as you can, arrest as many young people as you can. Today's NYPD leadership embraces the notion that they can get a lot done with a lot fewer arrests and a lot less mass incarceration.

I have heard all three of the commissioners I had talk about why this is the direction to go in. Last year in New York City, 180,000 fewer arrests than the last year of Mayor Bloomberg. 180,000 fewer arrests and we got safer. We reduced the number of people in our correction system by 50 percent already. Now think about that. That's just six years it took to do that, so this is why I'm very hopeful on what we can do with the relationship between police and community. I've seen these changes happening so rapidly. And you said something very powerful, Ebro, the officers being the ones to initiate the different relationship. I think more and more our officers not only understand that, they buy into that. That is what the training is about.

Neighborhood policing says you are of and by and for your community. Our officers more and more are being kept in the same part of a neighborhood so they can actually get to know people and they're being told, put time into developing those relationships. And what everyone is finding – I've heard this from more officers than I can count – is once you get to know people on a first name basis, officers are giving their cell phone numbers, their emails to community residents saying, if you need something, come to me directly, I'll help. It is changing. It's becoming a human thing now. It's like human to human. It's not, you know, blue and neighborhood separated. It is person to person. That now is being extended to young people.

So the point you made about what responsibility we have to reach our young people, I'm trying to break this news to people because somehow it is not being picked up even though it was announced. This is now the policy of the NYPD –

Darden: Well they'd rather they'd rather take your slogan out of context, Save Our City, and – on the New York Post – and make it sound like you failed.

Rosenberg: Well, but –

Mayor: I'm not worried about them. I –

Rosenberg: Ebro, let me just add one thing to that.

Mayor: I am definitely not worried about them.

Rosenberg: So, to the point you're making. I think Ebro makes a good point. We have had conversations about the NYPD, right? We're media, we're in a different position. We believe that there's an actual initiative to change. I think what's really important is that both officers on the street understand, and certainly the union understands that when you have a major incident that happens on camera or even not a major incident. I wouldn't call yesterday major. It's a small incident but it happens on camera. It does so much to work against the good that you're presenting with clear facts. The numbers – less people are getting arrested and crime is going down. That's fantastic. Everyone should be happy. But when you have one officer who has a bad moment, that fight on the subway platform we've watched a few months ago where a teenager is getting knocked out, cold-cocked by a police officer, that undoes so much work, or when people don't see that Officer Pantaleo, the process that people had to go through to see him get his version of comeuppance, whatever you want to call it, it does so much to undo the exact thing that you're saying they're doing.

Mayor: You're – when you say that individual moments and images loom large. We’re humans, you're right, of course. But I also am telling you, having been out in the communities and having listened to community people, I think a lot of New Yorkers are receiving the bigger change. They're feeling the bigger change because it's not just the one dramatic moment or video, it's what they're living every single day. They know the relationship with officers is different. Look when you – there were 700,000 stops in 2011, you know. It's down now to something like 15,000 a year. It's a fundamentally different reality out on the streets. I have had young men of color come up to me with consistency and say to me, thank you, I don't get stopped anymore, that's just like fundamentally changed my life. When you talk about the reduction in arrests, when you talk about officers going out and building those relationships, that's what – literally that's reaching millions of New Yorkers over these years.

So those moments, I know they loom large in the media and I don't blame people for that. But I think on the ground there's like a – it's like social history. It’s like the difference between the history we get taught in school and the social history, which is what's happening with real human beings and how they – they built this country, they built their communities. On the ground, something is changing and it's only begun. I think you should have Commissioner Dermot Shea on to have this conversation.

Darden: We haven't met him.

Mayor: I think it would be very good for people to hear –

Rosenberg: We like the new commish.

Mayor: He's one of the architects of all this. He is one of the people who said we could be doing a lot fewer arrests. We could be creating a different relationship and the youth piece is him. He said if we – and I think this was profound. He said it the day I announced him, and it didn't get picked up on, but he said we have spent so much time thinking about the crimes that did happen, what if we started thinking about the crimes that never happened because we reached young people and they never ended up on that wrong path. He has been signaling this from the beginning. There's a different way to think about policing. It's a little –

Darden: Glass half full policing.

Mayor: But it’s not only glass half full. It is, what if it is about helping to get to the root cause? Right. What if it's about not policing people but working with people to figure out the –

Darden: The cultural issues.

Mayor: Correct.

Rosenberg: That's like Marianne Williamson's ideas about instead of health care, you know, instead of just sick care, health care. How do we get ahead of [inaudible] –

Mayor: Correct.

Rosenberg: Based on a few things you've said today, Mayor de Blasio, I don't get the sense that you're going to be endorsing Michael Bloomberg –

[Laughter]

Darden: Bloomberg is gaining ground now. He's buying it.

Mayor: He’s buying alright.

Rosenberg: [Inaudible] commercials every 10 minutes in North Carolina, every 10 minutes in North Carolina for the last few months.

Stylez: I was just telling Rosenberg this. I was like – my friend was like, the Bloomberg engine is on nonstop even in California.

Rosenberg: And L. A. [inaudible] –

Stylez: Nonstop.

Mayor: Can you go on eBay and buy the presidency? Is that what it is?

Darden: That's what's happening.

Mayor: Just go on and click.

Darden: Now you're going to endorse Bloomberg if he's the candidate for the Democrats.

Mayor: I am 110 percent clear. Any Democrat, whoever's the nominee, I will work hard for them against Donald Trump. Period. By the way, I have real differences with Bloomberg, but I do want to give him credit. He has said the same thing.

Rosenberg: About which part?

Mayor: He has said whoever the Democratic nominee is, he'll support.

Darden: Okay. Yeah. You know, I take issue with how he handled the Central Park Five, obviously, stop-and-frisk, how he's left the city. A lot of the issues you're dealing with, with homelessness and things like that started under Bloomberg –

Mayor: And a lot of the developers and landlords getting whatever they wanted –

Darden: It started under Bloomberg. Now is it possible that a business individual like Bloomberg who cares to fix problems by paying for them and doesn't necessarily care about the cultural impact? Because, you know, I don't believe Bloomberg cares culturally about individuals. That's not who I think he is. I think he thinks that money fixes everything. And in some regards that's a correct thing. Is it possible that he could be a better president than he is a mayor – than he was a mayor?

Mayor: He, unquestionably, could be a better president than Donald Trump. That's just what's – just again, make that real clear. I don't know how to answer that because I really felt as mayor, he missed so much of what was happening. I think he – the entire Great Recession he missed. He missed what was happening to human beings. He missed that people were struggling. He didn't know how to connect that. He didn’t know how to understand that and feel that.

Darden: And that’s why I think he doesn’t care.

Mayor: Right. And I don't know what that means, if that somehow could – you know, how could you be an effective president if you don't feel the lives of your people? But again, compared to a destructive president and a hateful president, I'd take him any day. But I don't – look, I've said from the beginning, I don't believe this Democratic Party wants to nominate a billionaire. I think this Democratic Party has actually become persistently more progressive.

Darden: Yeah, well, it damn sure looks like they’re working against Bernie though. It looks like they're working against Bernie.

Mayor: Well, maybe, but the voters are speaking so far. And I think – look, the party and the country had been changing. I do want to give Bernie credit for what he did in 2016, he changed the national discussion in a way –

Darden: He’s changing it now.

Mayor: – that very few people –

Darden: Even Buttigieg and Biden have co-opted some of Bernie's talking points to try to figure out how to come closer to this, this energy that Bernie Sanders has.

Mayor: So, I think that's why I don't see, no matter how much spending, this party embracing a candidate who represents the opposite, who is literally one of the world's richest men. And, you know, lately has been talking about more taxes on the wealthy, but that's a brand new message from him. When I came out with my plan to tax the wealthy for pre-K when I was running for mayor, he treated it like it was heresy. You know, this is not someone who is going to natively say, how can I rebalance our society in favor of working people? That's just not who he is.

Darden: Well, and he also will do whatever – I mean, he's been a Republican, an Independent, a Democrat. He kind of weaves and bobs however he needs to get his thing done.

Rosenberg: You were at these debates, you were – did you did you get to spend – I know you got to spend a little bit of time with the candidates.

Mayor: Yeah.

Rosenberg: I'm going to ask you a tough question. Did you get any moments with Vice President Biden?

Mayor: No. He and I – you know, I'll be very straightforward – and I respect what he's done for the country, but I –

Darden: You don’t like him?

Mayor: It’s not like –

[Laughter]

I didn’t think it would be –

Rosenberg: You didn’t talk to him at all? You didn’t get a moment?

Mayor: A few moments. But no, I had made my criticisms very clear, and he knew it.

Darden: So, he didn't really have an interest in chatting it up.

Mayor: Yeah. It's like, you know, different people have different relationships when you're backstage –

Rosenberg: Who did you chat with the most backstage?

Mayor: There's definitely – I have a great relationship with a lot of the folks. Julian Castro is an example of someone I've known a long time.

Darden: Castro’s great, I would love him [inaudible]

Stylez: Me too.

Mayor: He’s a very impressive guy. And you know, it’s a bunch of people – you know, Bernie, Elizabeth are people I feel very close to personally, politically.

Stylez: You chatted with Andrew Yang?

Mayor: Yeah, Andrew Yang's a pretty funny guy. I’ve got to give him credit.

Darden: You like Yang?

Mayor: Yang, you know, I don't agree with everything he's saying, at all, but, he is, the guy is a New Yorker, first of all – and he's a real New Yorker, you can tell. And he's got really interesting things to say. He's a fun guy. So, there's plenty people. But with Biden, I had made abundantly clear that I didn't think he was representing where the party is today and where the country's going.

Darden: Real quick pause – we got to give the people some money. Do you want to give away some money while you're here?

Mayor: I'll give away money.

Rosenberg: It’s not yours.

Mayor: Sure, you want me to give away money? I’m ready to serve.

Darden: Caller number nine, right now – Bill de Blasio has a half-a-grand for you, and a shot at a million dollars.

Mayor: Woah –

Darden: That’s right.

Mayor: That’s real money.

Stylez: See that giant vault with the money? She’s security there, making sure that we don’t get to touch it.

[Laughter]

Darden: I think it’s a sham – I call it the sham vault. But people can take a shot anyway. But automatically, caller number nine gets $500.

Mayor: No way.

Darden: Automatically, straight like that.

Mayor: Can I go out and call?

[Laughter]

Darden: It’s kind of – this is like the freedom – this is basically like the freedom dividend for Yang.

[Laughter]

We give money – just bang, money for listening. Bam – done. Is it ready? We good? Okay. We do this at seven and eight every morning and then again at four and five, so when people are driving to and from work – strategically placed.

Mayor: Very pleasant surprise.

Darden: You understand? Hot 97 – hello?

Caller: Good morning, Ebro.

Darden: Good morning, what's your name?

Caller: Muhammadu –

Darden: Muhammadu, you’re caller number nine, man.

[Applause]

Caller: Wow, I can’t believe it. And I got the Mayor over there too?

Darden: Yeah, the Mayor’s here too, Muhammadu.

Mayor: Congratulations, this is your lucky day.

Darden: But before we give him the big one –

Mayor: Yes.

Darden: He takes a shot at another one.

Mayor: Oh wow, there's more?

Darden: Yeah. So, Muhammadu, do we need four numbers for the vault for your shot at $1 million.

Caller: Oh wow. Okay. I'll give you three, six, eight, six he says.

Darden: Three, six, eight, six he says. Muhammadu, where are you from?

Caller: From West Africa –

Darden: Yo, shout out to Africa, man. Shout out to Africa.

[Applause]

Caller: Thank you.

Darden: Oh, sorry. No million dollars.

Mayor: No million dollars, okay.

Darden: However, tell him what he does win.

Mayor: $500? Muhammadu, you get today, because you were the lucky caller, $500.

[Applause]

Darden: Mayor, now can you guarantee him any tax breaks on that –

Mayor: Don't push your luck, okay? Just be happy with the $500.

[Laughter]

Darden: Muhammadu, I tried man, I tried.

Caller: Thank you so much [inaudible]

Darden: Of course, man. We appreciate you listening, man. Your next chance to win is with Nessa at 4 o’clock. Now, Mayor –

Mayor: Yes.

Darden: Bail reform –

Mayor: Yes, sir.

Darden: Do you believe this new law should be changed in any way shape or form?

Mayor: I'm going to tell you what I've said and what the Police Commissioner said. We both believe the same thing. The law was necessary. It was necessary and important to reform the bail laws so that no one would languish in jail simply because they could not afford a small amount of money, which was happening and was discriminatory. So, we agree. I agree, the Commissioner agrees, bail reform was necessary. Some of those other criminal justice reforms, absolutely necessary and they're helping us reduce mass incarceration. What I've said is, there are still some things that need to be addressed in that law because there are situations where judges, in my view, need some more discretion. If someone has, for example, a history of violating judicial orders and they have a history on violence –

Darden: Sounds like sensible change.

Mayor: Sensible changes, but that will not undermine the spirit and the effect of bail reform.

Darden: Now, for the audience, because I think it gets perverted, the message – bail reform, if a bail was set, these individuals, right, let's say hypothetically speaking, if bail was set and they could afford the bail, would have been out of jail or out of holding anyway.

Mayor: Well, in fact, if for this law, the vast majority of people made bail, and this is where the whole conversation has been –

Darden: And that’s why I say the message is perverted.

Mayor: It has been perverted. This is really about fine tuning here. And trying to make sure that the small number – remember this is something that – every one of my police commissioners have said the same thing – there are a few thousand people in New York City who create vast majority of the violence, a few thousand out of 8.6 million. Focusing on if we've got individuals have that kind of track record, we want to treat that a little bit differently. But, overall, historically, most people got out on bail anyway, and some who didn't just for economic reasons – that was ridiculous. And this law does a good job of addressing that.

Darden: You've done a lot of work making sure that this is a sanctuary city, right? Sanctuary State – Laura, you brought this to the forefront yesterday with regard to the TSA pre-check and –

Stylez: Global entry, any trusted traveler programs that are being shut down for New Yorkers.

Darden: What does that mean? And do you know what –

Stylez: And is this permanent?

Mayor: First of all, I will tell you that everything is only for one year because there's going to be a new president in 2021.

Darden: I hope you're right.

Mayor: Okay, I believe that in my heart. I really – and I think there's a whole lot of, you know, public opinion research that’s telling us the same thing. But what the President did here, just sure discrimination against his home state – has nothing to do with security, has nothing to do with safety. You can't say, yeah, everything's based on a passport – a passport’s the same all over the country – suddenly saying, well, New Yorkers don't get this right anymore. That's a game. That's politics. That's retaliation.

Stylez: That’s what it feels like.

Mayor: It just totally is. It's not about facts. But what we have seen over and over, if it has anything to do with immigration, it is always about politics with Trump, with ICE, and now, unfortunately, they're bringing, you know, the passports into it.

Darden: They just botched the situation last night. You heard about the situation last night where they were going after somebody who the NYPD wouldn't turn over to ICE. And so, they went and they shot the guys that they were looking for, they shot the right guy in the face.

Mayor: And then they attack the NYPD. And I just want to be really clear, if ICE thinks they're going to win the battle of public opinion by attacking the NYPD, they are wrong. They are wrong.

Darden: They couldn't care about public opinion.

Mayor: They don't, and they don't care about public safety. In the end, it's politics. ICE now a wing of the Donald Trump campaign committee. That's what I really feel. That's what they're doing. They're just doing this to create images and messages to support Trump's reelection.

Darden: That's it. So, it's marketing 100 percent.

Mayor: Marketing, not about security. Security is what we're doing right now. The NYPD for literally decades has said, we're not going to ask people documentation status. We're going to work with everyone because we know if you've got half-a-million undocumented people, we’ve got to work with everyone if we’re going to keep the city safe. By the way, for 25 years in a row, the city has been getting safer, basically. So, guess what? That worked. But ICE wants to arbitrarily expel anyone and everyone, regardless of what they have done or haven't done, as opposed to New York City that has very clear laws – you have to do a serious crime and be convicted. In that case, you're out of here. You should be out of here. But ICE is ready to expel anyone, everyone, tear a family apart, all to support the Trump political agenda. That's what's going on.

Darden: How do you as a mayor, or even the NYPD, working together protect these individuals? Like, how does the work get done?

Mayor: NYPD does not participate with ICE in anything they do. And then, the NYPD has to intervene. That's what happened here. They got a report of shots fired. They showed up. They don't care if it's a federal agent or who it is. If someone's shooting up New York City, they're going to step in and calm down the situation and get under control. That's what they did. But ICE is acting irrationally and recklessly. The NYPD is trying to keep order in this place, but also respect to immigrants.

Darden: Mayor de Blasio, you're our mayor for how much longer?

Mayor: Two more years.

Darden: Two more years.

Mayor: Two intense years.

Darden: Now that you're not running for president, what is your goals, man.

Mayor: You know, I've been auditioning for this incredible radio show.

Rosenberg: He just did a giveaway of $500.

[Laughter]

Mayor: Just – these are some of the coolest people.

Darden: I got a name for you – de Blasio Radio.

Mayor: I like it, it rhymes.

Stylez: Well, you come back, so that means a lot.

Mayor: I mean, fourth chair, I could just add to the chemistry, you know –

Darden: We're already over our white quotient. The white quotient is too hot.

[Laughter]

Rosenberg: I would sabotage this entire thing.

[Laughter]

Mayor: It's like, I'm not letting him.

[Laughter]

Rosenberg: I mean, you can't do live reads like me. You can't do these FanDuel spots like I can, Mayor. I can see he's sweating now.

Darden: He's under pressure. Your profile’s big and you ran for president. I don't know [inaudible] might be out it here.

Rosenberg: That’s a good point. You’re very tall too.

Mayor: Yeah.

Rosenberg: I can't compete with [inaudible].

Darden: And he’s got a black wife and a black son, it’s great [inaudible]

Mayor: Rosenberg, once was great.

[Laughter]

[Inaudible] outlast you, Rosenberg.

Rosenberg: It was a good run.

Darden: De Blasio, thank you for your time.

Mayor: Always –

Darden: I appreciate you.

Mayor: Always an honor to be with you guys. Thank you for the real talk about our city that I always find here.

Darden: Come on, don't give the papers lay ups like save our city –

[Laughter]

This guy with the congratulations, like –

Mayor: Why are you even validating them? They have an attitude problem.

Darden: So, you’re saying the congratulations [inaudible] on me for even paying attention to the Post?

Mayor: No, I'm saying don't fall into the trap. You talked about culture change, they're part of the past.

Rosenberg: He wouldn't even keep the paper near him – if you pushed it near him, he pushed the right back.

Mayor: That’s right. That's what we all have to do.

Rosenberg: Try it again. See what happens.

Mayor: See? Watch what happens. See?

[Laughter]